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the kind one
Joined: Oct 18, 2003
Posts: 1044
Now we all know Marty has a big mouth and spews lots of trash on multiple forums, but as far as his take on depth now a days is spot on. Just 20 years ago, you would hardly see underclassman making the lineup, except for the occasional young stud. Take a look at the lineups and grades from the Spencerport 1978 tournament. Seems a large percentage of all teams were made up juniors and seniors. How often do you see this now a days? these days, you rarely get any kids popping on the scene as a senior because he had to wait for upperclassmen to graduate in order to make the lineup! If that isn't an example of depth I don't know what is!

Kids now a days are learning on varsity due to a lack of depth in the current system. No baby steps are ever taking. It used to be an accomplishment to win JV Monroe counties. Now it's like a water down title based on the fact that there are already so many 9-11 graders immediately up on varsity.

This isn't me trashing on the top wrestlers of today. The best of the best now would be good in any era. Just not as 8th and 9th graders.

Just look at Hilton's WHOLE lineup. The top teams of the last 20 years would handle them. Why you ask? Depth and tough kids up and down the lineup. Guys would lose to studs, but lose 5-1, 6-3 etc, instead of being tech'd or pinned.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
that was KIND of you..lol.

The spiral downward- was pointed out to me by a well informed coach by the name of Lou Giani- as we shared a cup of coffee at a local Dunk'n Donut...I would say about 8 yrs ago.

I saw it with my two eyes AND Ive said it 100 Xs. Late '90s I could go to ANY Tourney in Nassau / Suffolk to see quality wrestlers..in the early 00s I wouldnt attend too many matches in Nassau cause the competition wasnt rellevent. The BEST kids were avoiding each other. So, it was strictly Suffolk or around the State- when 2010 came in- I was not going to any matches, and /or tournies- until the Suffolk Co semi-finals- Today, it will be the same- Suffolk Co semi finals.

So, I am not QUESTIONING any kid's ability. Though, I am reflective of what I have been seeing - I also, know the difference between what is good , very good, great....and what is acceptable. Without dissecting individual TECHNIQUE and ABILITY. It is my opinion that Wrestling --- is Wrestling. I just choose to accept that Sport in NYS in general- is not what it use to be. Except, for women sports which have definitely risen across the board. I am only here to stir the pot and open some closed minds....or let's say open the eyes of uninformed posters.

Like I have always said . "Any kid that walks through a Wrestling Room door and stays ...should only be commended".


provocateur
Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1106
His take isn't spot on. He is a gibbering idiot who's main goal is not to make observations about wrestling itself but to glorify how he "coulda been a contender"/ He's pathetic. The teams of today would crush the teams of the past. Look at the level changes and set ups, the takedown defense. THey'd have to take the 70s guys out on stretchers and Endicott hospital's ER would be stretched to the limit!


Raider92
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 122
Have to agree with provocateur.....LIMarty is like most Strong Island men....life was better when I was a younger..kids were tougher...trust him, they were so tough he had to quit wrestling in HS. Hey I understand why you are so miserable LIMarty if I had to drive on the LIE everyday I'd be miserable to. Please find a girls softball website you can comment on and leave wrestling to those who look forward to the future and not dwell in the past.


LoneWolf
Joined: Nov 29, 2013
Posts: 26
the kind one wrote:
Now we all know Marty has a big mouth and spews lots of trash on multiple forums, but as far as his take on depth now a days is spot on. Just 20 years ago, you would hardly see underclassman making the lineup, except for the occasional young stud. Take a look at the lineups and grades from the Spencerport 1978 tournament. Seems a large percentage of all teams were made up juniors and seniors. How often do you see this now a days? these days, you rarely get any kids popping on the scene as a senior because he had to wait for upperclassmen to graduate in order to make the lineup! If that isn't an example of depth I don't know what is!

Kids now a days are learning on varsity due to a lack of depth in the current system. No baby steps are ever taking. It used to be an accomplishment to win JV Monroe counties. Now it's like a water down title based on the fact that there are already so many 9-11 graders immediately up on varsity.

This isn't me trashing on the top wrestlers of today. The best of the best now would be good in any era. Just not as 8th and 9th graders.

Just look at Hilton's WHOLE lineup. The top teams of the last 20 years would handle them. Why you ask? Depth and tough
kids up and down the lineup. Guys would lose to studs, but lose 5-1, 6-3 etc, instead of being tech'd or pinned.



I get what your saying. But on the other hand you can't go and hate on the kids who are tough. Obviously there's kids who aren't as tough as they were 10, 15 years ago when we were in our prime. The game as changed and were going to have to learn to deal with it or leave the sport because nobody needs the negativity. Just let the kids wrestle and worry about spectating.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
GO ....Back to the Future !!!

This is all I suggest. The principles that were set fort back when.... are the foundation and the road to success in this Sport. To soften a society- weakens combat sport.

The amount of DI scholarships- and - top production at the next level from NYS talent in Football/ Wrestling has progressively gone down. To ACCEPT this- is your problem. Not mine !!!


Old School Ranger
Joined: Dec 20, 2007
Posts: 477
Location: NY 259 & NY 31: Spencerport
I just read the thread, very entertaining. LI Marty sure can stir up the hornets' nest. I don't think you have to agree completely with what anyone says here, we all have opinions.

Rules change, the level of participation changes, coaching emphasizes different areas of behavior. With the growth of awareness of the cumulative effects of head injuries over time, wholesale changes have happened to lessen the occurrence of them. Practices, match rules, protocol once an injury has occurred, diagnoses, and recovery required before being cleared before being allowed to return to competition are all advancements making the sport safer for participants. Does this water-down the pool? No, I don't think-so. Do fewer participants water-down the pool? Yes, for me that is a logical point, one with-which I can agree.

Having begun in the sport while in single-digits, because of three older brothers, all wrestling for Spencerport, I was used to attending the Saturday practices, where I'd drag along one friend or another, and we'd roll-around on the mats in whatever space wasn't being used by the high school teammates. Were we actively being coached? No, not really, but the coaches and the wrestlers would watch us, and help us to develop techniques. It was very informal. Organized wrestling for us in school didn't begin until intermediate school, middle school today, and was intramural style, not yet intrascholastic (other schools). In junior high, we began competing against other communities, and I pretty-much ended up wrestling against the same guys from then through the end of high school.

When Walt Teike came to Spencerport, it was a new era. He trained us hard, drills were run by whistle, 30 seconds and a stop watch, one tweet to begin, two to stop, and about 20 seconds to re-set for the next whistle-blow to do it again. "Tweets" had a different meaning , then to today. The depth charts were usually three or four-deep. It was a lot of fun, and a lot of work. I was used to being mat fodder for the seniors, but I knew that if I kept at it, my time would come. No seventh or eighth-grade wrestlers allowed on the varsity then. I'm old-enough to recall the vinyl suits, banned today, and not drinking water during practice, though I don't ever recall Walt telling us not-to. It was just something you did, to lose weight, and when you got to the end of practice, you'd wait your turn at the fountain, because everyone was thirsty. If I didn't lose between 3-4% of my body weight that day in practice it was "an easy one." We didn't have many "easy ones" under Walt Teike.

What we did have, was drilling on conditioning and fundamentals. That was the foundation of the program. Walt watched over us in school, he spoke with our teachers, he knew who was in-need of help scholastically, and he pushed us to address our academics. There were times when someone was removed from the line-up because of a lack of compliance with academics. Live and learn.

The sport has changed, I have many good memories of the times I spent in the sport of wrestling. I think LI Marty's points have merit, I don't always agree with his posts, but it's fun to read how the forum members interpret his writings.
_________________
Memories are personal events of history whose existence relies on those who lived them, those who witnessed them and those who pass them on.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
Watching the Eastern State Tournament on FLO.

I will not be watching anymore HS wrestling -

best to all....and...to all... good night.


".....where have you gone Joe Dimaggio " ?????


firemenj
Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 152
Location: NY
So... you're watching or not watching. You just said that you paid for a subscription to Flo to watch Eastern States (and are currently watching), then said you are not watching. Pick one man


Dragtrip
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
Posts: 55
LImarty wrote:
Watching the Eastern State Tournament on FLO.

I will not be watching anymore HS wrestling -

best to all....and...to all... good night.


".....where have you gone Joe Dimaggio " ?????



Don't threaten us with a good time lol...good riddance!


coachlaz
Joined: Mar 4, 2015
Posts: 12
Interesting read. There are tremendous differences in the complexion of yesteryear and the current landscape. Techniques, school athletic-academic policies, specialization, scientific research, societal norms, etc... have all transformed the sport. If you look at the differences in generations from the Greatest Generation to Baby Boomers to Gen X to the Millennials, one thing remains constant though. The toughest kids in school were/are the wrestlers.

Talent, toughness, and technique are all irrelevant to me. The toughest kids then would be doing what the kids today do and vice versa. One thing I'll say for today's kids that bothers the Hell out of me, is the number of matches they wrestle in a season. It is absolutely overkill. 50+ high school matches a year is too much physical mileage on these kids. Especially, when we have so many elite wrestlers starting out in middle school. No wrestler should have 300 high school matches, let alone career wins. All these(easy to get around) weight cutting and concussion safe-guards put in place, and somehow this manipulating of schedules and sectional points has gone under the radar. Grinding through these murderous schedules should give a pass for any kind of "pussification" the older guys are trying to level at today's kids.

I don't know what good it does to beef about wrestling eras. All eras are reflective of everything else that was going on at the time. I respect anybody that has laced them up, goes out on a mat risking humility, and gives their time to this sport.


piper1
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 183
Its a fact that today's kids to generalize are a bunch of soft, fat, video gamer's compared to past generations. Society is not gonna change just to benefit wrestling. However wrestling can change their rules to create more exciting wrestling matches. Refs are extremely predictable with their stall warning finally with 20 second left in the match, after the kid has backed up and stalled the entire match. Wrestling needs the push out rule, and needs the shot clock rule in the neutral position. 3 point takedowns and bring back riding time. College wrestling and freestyle is way more exciting, why are these changes not being implemented?.. At least put in the college out of bounds rule, the refs seem to be very inconsistent on when to blow the whistle and award points by the out of bounds circle. The college out of bounds rule would make it very clear and easy for the refs to make a correct, consistent call.


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 437
I cannot believe that on a weekend where we have the most competitive tournament this state has to offer, there is not a single thread OR post on this entire Forum regarding the Eastern States Tournament. Instead, we still have this nonsense. Maybe it's not the wrestlers who are going downhill. Maybe it's the fans.


Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1045
I watched it all weekend on Flo. Great wrestling.


piper1
Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 183
I was impressed to see that Greg D. at 113 was able to beat a 18/19 year old trey Laflamme.. thats a blessed gene pool in that family.. Also impressive was at 120 Orion Anderson tech falling the returning state champ at that weight
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