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We need numbers


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
I am an outsider and I cant figure out HOW all these Coaches- High School -Clubs etc. etc. etc. Have not tried to push for NUMBERS....Starting peewee leagues from ALL the elementary schools throughout NYS.

Cant figure out- that it takes an outsider to try to instill growth in a Sport that shouldnt need my input. Didnt anyone else see the train coming ???


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 436
"If, you arent Arujau, Diakom. and/or Deprez.....find a DIII school- and get your degree."



That's insane. So you're telling me that a kid who gets into Princeton or Lehigh or Stanford should ditch it for a DIII school because of
wrestling??? You got it backwards, buddy. The problem with this sport is that 99.9% of the kids have nowhere to go with it after they graduate. I knew baseball players who went to D11 or D111 schools because they wanted the PT to get better and find their way onto scouting radars, instead of riding a D1 bench and not getting a fair chance. That's a legitimate thing to do. But in wrestling, that gets you nowhere.

Yeah, I get it.......if you're a sub-par HS student and get interest from a D1 school that may be academically over your head, that may be a mistake. Or it may not. If it is, you can always re-set at a junior college.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
WHOA !!!!!!!!

The impact and position a State Ranks in wrestling- should never be reduced down - to (3) QUALITY wrestlers. QUALITY DEPTH is when ALL weights/ the majority of weights has two to four other wrestlers who are just a pt or two from the Champion. It is called PA 101.

and

On the choice of College. More have taken the harder road in competition and have abandoned any hope for a degree by doing so. I suggest thinking past the mat- and- concentrating on the degree. Choosing a DI Institution and not having the study habits to achieve a degree should NEVER be debated. For some reason- if, the wrestler cant make it on the mat- he, packs his bags and comes home.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 51
Falcon when confronting a madman it is recommended you quote Shakespeare and make circular arguments. There is little chance of you making so much sense that Marty will reconsider what you are talking about. For all of his anecdotal "evidence" he will never see the truth. My son is exactly what you speak of Falc, 2x state champ that now sucks as a freshman in college. Got into a school above his pay grade and still loves to wrestle, and is doing it for a D1 program with above a 3.0gpa. May be good by the time he is a junior but according to the brain dead he should quit. Ignorance is bliss, and Marty is in Shangri-la.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
Huh ...quit ???

WHAT IM SAYING FOR THE MENTALLY CHALLENGED.

There have been 100s of wrestlers- in the past 30 yrs that thought WRESTLING in DI was a given. When they found out how tough it was- they, packed their bags and went home. Many jeopardizing their future by over estimating their talent and forgetting the real reason to go to College.

and ...like most Parents- their 15 minutes of fame is almost over. When their kid gets off the mat.

I am so glad that I am a hasbin- other than a neverwas. Cant imagine living through someone else's successes and failures.
.......................

In regards to NUMBERs (the thread). Having (3) wrestlers that are the BEST in the State going to wrestle DI....well, it is a FAILURE - From a State as large as New York only having (3) possibilities that possibly could make an impact. .....is a disgrace !!!!
.............................................................................................

ps.......'may be good as a junior ????...lol....dollars to donuts- either he wont be wrestling anymore and/or the new recruit will be better. Never ever ONCE heard a College Coach evaluate an athlete - and- express his /her possibilities....as "maybe, as a junior"....Sounds like a Parent with wishful thinking


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 51
You still don't understand. I cannot make you read your own posts to see that you take both sides of an argument, nor do I wish to point out your mean spirited diatribe, your own posts do that well enough. Making blanket statements regarding kids coming home without an education after accepting a scholarship is a travesty, but to think it only happens in wrestling and somehow following your advice might avoid these pitfalls is a joke. Finally whether my son does well or not in wrestling is of little importance to me, that he achieves his goals, and learns from life is. If wrestling is in his future, great, if not he certainly doesn't do it for me. Maybe you should have a child and love them and care for them to be the best they can be before you decide to tell others what to do with their young men. Silly, sad, pathetic that your next response will not get a response, not because you have "buried another poster" but because your comments while endless and seemingly saying something are vacuous and inane.


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 436
If the kid graduates with an Ivy league degree and never steps into the starting line-up, he still got what he was supposed to get out of wrestling.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
YES- YES- YES .......I am astounded that WRESTLING NON-RESULTs get tied into EDUCATION. This is just a bail-out/ excuse when your kid doesnt make it to a College wrestling mat. How many Harvard graduates are still looking for a job.???

No one ever said that getting into a top educational institution by any means and leaving with a degree is a bad thing. WHAT I am saying- being that this is a WRESTLING WEBSITE tell me why the continued failure in results at the next level by multiple X State Champs from NYS ??? Why ??? less numbers in NYS. ??

The NEXT LEVEL....is the basis of all the parts put together from peewees thru High School. NYS has trended downward. So, I suggest before you issue a thread about NUMBERS- figure out WHY. The why is self explanatory. The demise comes from different variables yet, it starts with volunteers giving back to their community and Coaches, wrestlers who are relentless in training. Intestinal fortitude . Communities that are toughened -up. Physical activity over technological advancement is a start..... ex: See that overweight man/ woman running down the street. Maybe, they should have looked in the mirror sooner ??? No one respects tough love anymore. No shortcuts to success in most arenas.

ps. I met a kid last week- a Columbia graduate. He is waiting tables. Carpenters, Electricians, Laborers make approx. 80,000 to 150,000 a year plus, benefits.

TURN THE AIR CONDITIONER ON- Im sweating. !!!! The PUSSIFICATION of America .


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 51
Your vague argument is the first question. Define success for NYS wrestlers in NCAA. Show us with numbers what we once attained for a period (not just one year) and we can discuss the facts. Basically you are setting up a situation where you state an opinion, say it is a fact, and we are all to agree with it, I do not. Until I am shown otherwise I do not accept your assertions that we are in decline, you have been saying such for 15 years many factors effect things not just the Marty says so so it must be. Please do not point to years of jantzen, patrovich, Nickerson & Gillespie as years of greatness because when they were achieving AA status you were already in the decline of NYS wrestling rhetoric. I clearly remember posts of yours knocking Jantzen, now he is a hero. As for the kid who went to Columbia and is waiting tables, travesty, but I have those horror stories from football, lacrosse, soccer, and no sport at all, so what are you trying to say? So that kid as a freshman should have known he would be a loser in life's lottery and give up before he started? Maybe that kid will go on to greatness, maybe he is on to graduate school and is working to take some of the burden off of mom and dad, maybe he will help develop a cure for your affliction and we will all be better off. So in summation once in a while post a fact or two (you do know what a fact is?). Stop alleging your anecdotal diatribe is anything other then your own myopic opinion. Finally leave parenting to those of us who have and care for our children.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
go look at the amount of AAs at the DI NCAA Tournament. It has consistently declined for NY. More importantly...go open your State Program and count the number of NYS Champs who have had no presence on a DI, DII, and / or DIII mat- then, see how well they did. Dont let me use names...it, isnt nice. Name the last Nassau Co. DI NCAA Finalist and in what year. ( Nuff said !!!!)

.....................................

raised 3 boyz to men. who are all College graduates and are now in the work force....ok Pop.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 51
Not asking you to be nice or not. Listing a time frame when we were "awesome" in your mind say a ten year span. List the all Americans from that period year by year as the standard. You have the deck stacked in your favor, the vagueness of your argument has never made you pin down a period where we were "great" to let us less intelligent try to see finally what you are saying. Pick your ten best years and lets see what you are talking about, how they compare to other periods with the advent of title 9, and population demographics, maybe you will teach us something, otherwise stop with the conjecture.


quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 140
List of collegiate AA's from NY this year

DI

Nick Piccininni
Brian Realbuto
Dylan Palacio

DII

Anthony Sparacio
Eric Lewandowski

DIII

Lucas Malmberg (NCAA champ)
Jon Haas
Maverick Passaro
Jay Albis
Bobby Dierna (NCAA champ)
Jordan Bushey
Blaise Benderoth
Carlos Toribio
Tristan Engle
James Bethel

NJCAA

Nick Casella (NJCAA Champ)
Troy Keller
Cedrick Stevens


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 840
quick,

THANK YOU.

Im not comparing- decades here. I am suggesting that WE are not at the same level - NYS is no longer a Top Tier HS wrestling State...Having 3- 4 best wrestlers in the Country this year coming out suggests that others should be filling their spots ???? Btw. You want to do the same lists for PA/ Ohio / Iowa ????

I would hope that Stony Brook will eventually become a DI Wrestling School. It is an affordable solution for LI wrestlers. Hofstra has seen it's better days and Bing/ Buff seem to only draw wrestlers north of the Tappen Zeen Bridge.
.......................................

BTW. bigkidontheblock. (3) DI AAs- ???? and you are questioning what years..... Again, for the billionth time. Open up your State Program- count ALL those multiple time state champs- and- tell me by name how many AA'd in DI competition....then, make a list of all that didnt......other than Dake/ Gwiz there is a gap back to the Section IV- maulers Nickerson Glenn, and O'Connor....with a sprinkle of G. Gillespie and others.


goodshots
Joined: Feb 7, 2011
Posts: 56
Location: buffalo, n.y.
quick,
Can you do a list like that for the previous 40 years.. much appreciated, thanks!
_________________
Those who dont do the extra, fall behind


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 51
Straw man argument. Set up the time period we should aspire to, and we can analyze what was right then, and wrong now. Can't cherry pick your facts for each moment. And for your A.D.D. I agree with you Stony Brook should have a D1 program, other problems there though do you ever wonder why county championships are no longer there? I agree because of title 9 that Hofstra has its problems, but those are side issues. You have corrupted a thread that was about numbers needed to "watch" NCAA's on ESPN to your usual soapbox speeches, now all I am asking is that you look it up so I can blow up your argument with facts. You haven't taken the bait because you don't want to discuss tangible facts, you want to discuss "martyworld" where everything revolves around your distorted truths.
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