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ONE NYS Tournament


Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1101
I believe it would eliminate one or two of those.


quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 190
Wrestle10 wrote:
So now we have:

Class Tournaments
Sectional Tournaments
Regional Tournaments
State Tournament

Yeah adding a tournament definitely a way to save money

Hey all you assistant coaches that spend all season training the wrestlers sorry you have to pay your own way because Marty feels that Long Island gets the shaft in representation


That was my whole point. I can't see how this is a cost saving measure. As far as equal representation, now you're combining the top two Division 1 teams and making them compete for a spot at states. What makes you think that you are going to have more representation or that guys aren't going to miss out on an opportunity to go to states with this format? If anything, there will be more that lose in this situation considering the success of Section VIII and XI historically. I do not think that we have a perfect system, I just think that this system isn't as well thought out as you think it is.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
Exactly... said same a while ago. Our "Grandmaster" hasn't been able to clearly illustrate his point in the last 15 posts. My experience is he will glaze over these questions (which mine at first were sincere until he hasn't posted a single valid response over the course of this thread), choosing instead to stand on his proverbial soap box pretending that he explained himself to the point that all must agree, lol.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
Oldskool.

...they would have to get up earlier in the morning to understand the idea. imo- New York State has NEVER had a NYS State Tournament. Unfortunately, for many who have come and gone. When the Sport was at it's peak in New York

Larger Sections have always been stifled while smaller Sections have been rewarded.

This EQUAL REPRESENTATION of Section Champions is not relative toward the RESULTs over the years. Rich Romeo had the right idea some years back when he was the Coach at Canandaiqua, HS. Last time I checked - Can. is in Section V.

More importantly. Again, imo- WE need one champ at each weight in Albany and only 4 spots on the Podium. COMPETITION BREEDS - STRENGTH.

With the addition of two divisions- it has depleted competition. WRESTLERs today....did their best to avoid Teemer, Gissendaner, Busiello. One division eliminates this nonsense.

I remember not too long ago- 130 lbs had Riley-11/ Gillespie-5/ the kid from Canton-10/ Whitaker-2/ Cartwright-9. Another 152 lbs-/ Patrovich/ Gillespie / Bowman....or Ruggierello/ Jantzen/ PJ Gillespie. COMPETITION. COMPETITION. COMPETITION. You will NEVER see another match like Paddock vs Dake again....and 100 others.

An overview of this past '18 Tourney- had falls, techs, lop sided wins all the way into the Finals. UNHEARD OF..before


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
Like I said won't address the questions


quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 190
LImarty wrote:
Oldskool.

...they would have to get up earlier in the morning to understand the idea. imo- New York State has NEVER had a NYS State Tournament. Unfortunately, for many who have come and gone. When the Sport was at it's peak in New York

Larger Sections have always been stifled while smaller Sections have been rewarded.

This EQUAL REPRESENTATION of Section Champions is not relative toward the RESULTs over the years. Rich Romeo had the right idea some years back when he was the Coach at Canandaiqua, HS. Last time I checked - Can. is in Section V.

More importantly. Again, imo- WE need one champ at each weight in Albany and only 4 spots on the Podium. COMPETITION BREEDS - STRENGTH.

With the addition of two divisions- it has depleted competition. WRESTLERs today....did their best to avoid Teemer, Gissendaner, Busiello. One division eliminates this nonsense.

I remember not too long ago- 130 lbs had Riley-11/ Gillespie-5/ the kid from Canton-10/ Whitaker-2/ Cartwright-9. Another 152 lbs-/ Patrovich/ Gillespie / Bowman....or Ruggierello/ Jantzen/ PJ Gillespie. COMPETITION. COMPETITION. COMPETITION. You will NEVER see another match like Paddock vs Dake again....and 100 others.

An overview of this past '18 Tourney- had falls, techs, lop sided wins all the way into the Finals. UNHEARD OF..before


Those matches all happened under the two division system.


subway101
Joined: Jan 17, 2013
Posts: 67
You guys waiting for Marty go actually respond coherently to your question is like waiting for snow in Hawaii. Next February, he begins copying and pasting the same rhetoric over again.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
Well I'm proud, I've been called a douche... and he spelled it right.... next time I am aiming for all caps!


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
DOUCHE BAG. I answered your question ( your request). Your " Rube Goldberg" retort -I guess makes you an anti-Semite too ???

The results of any tourney can change in a week or two. Carter/ Ryder or Sobotker/Gomez. For almost 35 yrs this couldn't happen in New York State. So, defending any system that remains with flaws in it- is not even fathomable to me. (this year Spadafora/ H.Hills) Actually, it is preposterous to believe that anyone who supports SECTIONAL/ TWO DIVISIONs in this Sport - only, has one agenda...bias. The REGIONAL FORMAT - yes, would eliminate 1/2 of the dual season after Jan. 1- and - Leagues would become Sec. Qualifiers- Sectionals would be the REG. QUALIFIERs...the costs would ultimately be cut nearly in half. Each Section would only be responsible for any of their Sectional and Regional qualifiers. (4 per weight / instead of 13 -up). More importantly-the closest way at bringing the BEST to Albany from either small or large school without concern from WHERE they came from in regards to sectional qualification- the strong will be rewarded and the inferior wont make it to Albany.

Again, with the current climate of contact sports in this society. Makes more sense to me....to increase the competition by constricting the talent pool and decreasing the amount of unnecessary opponents . One division, eliminating NON- HS participants., starting at 106 lbs....With this in place- this sport might have a chance of flourishing again in NYS . EXPOSURE is used as the answer against my sensibility. MOST wrestlers do not need exposure unless they have the ability to beat a champion. Go look at the first two rounds of wrestling- and some semis in Albany. Absolutely disgusting to see so many non-competitive matches. BTW. How many multiple X NYS Champs in the past 10-15 yrs are getting 50% scholarships and are making an impact at the DI Collegian level ??? Like I said, a handful....over the past 15 years. ( I can name them all )

BUILDING PROGRAMs...SCHOOLING WRESTLERs.....CHAINLINK ASSEMBLY.

ps. "BETTER"...today ??? If, kids who aren't schooled in various disciplines - defense, offense, fundamentals, counters, etc. etc....this makes them "BETTER"..lol...then I must be the "World's BEST". It's like saying an apprentice is better than a journeymen. How many days did I watch H.S. practices through the 00's and was astounded that high profile wrestlers with many wins on their record ..well, could not correctly demonstrate basic moves...or counters...positioning...set-ups...chain moves. It was SCARY !!! Scary to think that 1000s who came before them were considered inferior...lol. too funny !!!

The rush to get 8th and 9th graders to wrestle Varsity...makes 10th and 11th graders QUIT the Team. ex: an experienced mighty mouse at the age of 13 is whipping the heck out of a one year wrestler who is 15....Do you honestly think in this society today that the 15 yr old will remain on the team with a dream of being the starter as a senior (old school). Kids cant endure daily beatings anymore- emotionally and physically. Easier to quit- (nu skool)


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
Marty it seems neither me or anyone here is clear on your content. Your rhetoric is all apparent as you can't get through a post without resorting to it. So for me and anyone else who is trying (laboring) through your delirious posts for evidence of some form of intelligence please explain how this works. This without your silly commentary on every thought you type as if it makes your point more poignant. Try to follow this format:

1). How we qualify for the regional tournament
2). Who pays for the regional tournament
3). How many qualify for the regional tournament
4). If we are using our sectional tournament as a qualifier
A). How many go (and how will this change the argument that 3/4 or 5/6 from Suffolk would beat 1/2 from other sections which seems to be the center of your argument)
B). How will facing Nassau county and PSAL and being the 3 most populous sections and getting the same representation at the state tournament as less populated regions, not make more of the same arguments that you constantly espouse. See what I've done here, show up your ignorance (as I so often do), try to answer that one without your usual double talk.

5). If are adding two weeks for the extra tournament (fair assumption) where is the time coming from?

Those questions just scratch the surface of what I have asked and you have yet to answer.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
Ohh yeah and after all that lets talk dollars, lol...

Bye bye....


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
I am bewildered by your denseness .

A Regional format allows only the BEST- not, the Sectional creation of EQUAL representation. Again, all Sections are not equal. Using a thoughtful concern would have you understanding that too many inferior wrestlers make it to Albany. Yes, it was worse when it was just the winners from their Sections. Wildcards have helped but, it still omits some wrestlers from getting to Albany mainly, due to the STRENGTH of their weight in their Section.

REGIONALs by way of Section Tournaments is quite easy and more indicative of WHO is worthy of making it to Albany. At present, wrestlers who finish third and fourth in stronger Sections are not getting that chance. WHY ?? Mainly, because their records pale in comparison to wrestlers throughout the State- those who have weaker opponents...padding up their records. Section 9 is a prime example of this over the years. Many of their kids come with untarnished records- go see in your State Program - where they finish yearly.

REGIONALS. It is very simple. League Tournaments would come a week earlier. The first 4- would go to their Sectionals. The first 4-6 would go to their Regional. A kid like Spadafora and many who came before him....would, could..and should qualify for their Regional. After the REGIONALS. The top 4- would go to Albany. This eliminates wildcard points...and who the year prior State results.

COST ?? LOL !!!! (4) Regions is a lot less cheaper than sending multiple entries from 11 Sections-+ PSAL-+CHSAA....PLUS, 2-Divisions PLUS, ALL the Coaches. If, you need a calculator I can lend you one. It also would determine WHO- from where are the BEST in New York State- without bias and without worrying about the size of their school. Hence, Kyle Dake and Nick Gwiz.

also, using Long Island as an example. Nassau has a better system in place. QUALIFIERs instead of Leagues. My math suggests having Suffolk/ Nassau/ PSAL combined in a Region would mean 1- less facility for a 2- day Tournament.

Lastly. the watered down (2) Divisional format in my opinion has weakened the State immensely. WE / NYS are not getting the "exposure" as believed or sold. NO YEAR should have any enthusiasts knowing who will most likely be in the State Finals in the months before it. BTW. Redding, Ryder, Gomez luckily got "wildcards"...why leave it to luck ??? A regional format would not leave it so contrary . Even Ray Charles can see this from six feet under that EVERY match in the NYS Sectional State finals...showed that Long Island kids are "primary"...win or lose their matches are very competitive and this has been going on for 40+ years. I for one know many wrestlers through the years that never got a shot to overturn a Sectional Tournament unlike Redding, Ryder, and Gomez. Think about it. WHY ??? should Long Island wrestlers have the same representation as some underling Sections.. In NY it is more about equal representation and this isn't right. I'm more for getting it right. ONE STATE. We are slicing up a pizza and calling it Sections. That's not right.


quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 190
LImarty wrote:
I am bewildered by your denseness .

A Regional format allows only the BEST- not, the Sectional creation of EQUAL representation. Again, all Sections are not equal. Using a thoughtful concern would have you understanding that too many inferior wrestlers make it to Albany. Yes, it was worse when it was just the winners from their Sections. Wildcards have helped but, it still omits some wrestlers from getting to Albany mainly, due to the STRENGTH of their weight in their Section.

REGIONALs by way of Section Tournaments is quite easy and more indicative of WHO is worthy of making it to Albany. At present, wrestlers who finish third and fourth in stronger Sections are not getting that chance. WHY ?? Mainly, because their records pale in comparison to wrestlers throughout the State- those who have weaker opponents...padding up their records. Section 9 is a prime example of this over the years. Many of their kids come with untarnished records- go see in your State Program - where they finish yearly.

REGIONALS. It is very simple. League Tournaments would come a week earlier. The first 4- would go to their Sectionals. The first 4-6 would go to their Regional. A kid like Spadafora and many who came before him....would, could..and should qualify for their Regional. After the REGIONALS. The top 4- would go to Albany. This eliminates wildcard points...and who the year prior State results.

COST ?? LOL !!!! (4) Regions is a lot less cheaper than sending multiple entries from 11 Sections-+ PSAL-+CHSAA....PLUS, 2-Divisions PLUS, ALL the Coaches. If, you need a calculator I can lend you one. It also would determine WHO- from where are the BEST in New York State- without bias and without worrying about the size of their school. Hence, Kyle Dake and Nick Gwiz.

also, using Long Island as an example. Nassau has a better system in place. QUALIFIERs instead of Leagues. My math suggests having Suffolk/ Nassau/ PSAL combined in a Region would mean 1- less facility for a 2- day Tournament.

Lastly. the watered down (2) Divisional format in my opinion has weakened the State immensely. WE / NYS are not getting the "exposure" as believed or sold. NO YEAR should have any enthusiasts knowing who will most likely be in the State Finals in the months before it. BTW. Redding, Ryder, Gomez luckily got "wildcards"...why leave it to luck ??? A regional format would not leave it so contrary . Even Ray Charles can see this from six feet under that EVERY match in the NYS Sectional State finals...showed that Long Island kids are "primary"...win or lose their matches are very competitive and this has been going on for 40+ years. I for one know many wrestlers through the years that never got a shot to overturn a Sectional Tournament unlike Redding, Ryder, and Gomez. Think about it. WHY ??? should Long Island wrestlers have the same representation as some underling Sections.. In NY it is more about equal representation and this isn't right. I'm more for getting it right. ONE STATE. We are slicing up a pizza and calling it Sections. That's not right.


What makes you think that adding Section VIII and PSAL to your regional tournament would make Spadafora more likely to go to states? It would give him another opportunity, yes, but he now has Simmons to get through as well. And please stop using the Ray Charles line, it's old and has lost any effect it may have ever had.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 138
So 95% rhetoric no facts I need to be at a computer so I can show you such a long post says nothing. Martin it has been 3 weeks and either you have not had a deeper more thoughtful look at your own idea to hone and make it more feasible, or you are incapable of such. Later tonight I will explain why you failed again to communicate your thoughts in detail (sorry no illustrations so it might be hard for you w/o pop ups and color pictures).


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
quick,

Ray Charles likes that I use his name. COMBINING Sections will weed out "inferior" wrestlers- that IMO do not belong in Albany. Again, go look at the first two rounds of wrestling- in Albany. Techs, Falls, and lop sided scores. ALL SECTIONs ARE NOT EQUAL IN COMPETITION. Spadafora this year could have placed in Albany....and I can name dozens over the years. If, this is a STATE TOURNAMENT not a Section Tourney w/ wildcards (???). We aren't playing poker and this shouldn't be confused with a Pizza.

and

fatkids,

FACTs ??? LMFAO !!!

FACT is MANY from the past only made one appearance in Syracuse. Some very, very good wrestlers NEVER made it out of their Section for decades...while Section 7, and Section 10 always had representation.

another FACT. Regionals is productive in New Jersey and elsewhere
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