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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
I agree, but referencing just this post he talks about the glory days and mentions Gillespie, and Patrovich and others so now he likes that era? I cannot argue with someone who will not stay on topic. He has on my forum blasted kids like Piccininni saying he was not a great wrestler and I'm sure that now he is on that bandwagon. He has blasted Magic Man David Taylor saying his style would not win anything internationally and he was weak compared to average wrestlers of his time (whatever that is). Anyhow if I have to go back to the 70's and 80's I will. I do believe that things are in flux, I do not believe that things are getting worse, just changing and making sense of that change is difficult. I believe the 1970's and 80's were different because there were so many D1 programs that people were getting scholarships, that maybe those young men weren't the greatest athletes in whatever sport they received a scholarship in(not me saying that but dads who got scholarships comparing themselves to their sons, I know anecdotal but at least I admit it). I do know whether you speak to Tom Ryan (and I have a few years back) or my kids coach Chris Ayres or others close to the sport on the collegiate level, the kids that are coming up are much better trained as freshmen then they were in years past. That doesn't mean they are better, it just means what the coaches say, kids have more mat experience. Now maturity, and other factors play into the mix, and that's where the grey area that Marty hides in comes around. Perceptions are that we have less D1 all americans now, and that is one question I asked on the LI forum about a week ago, I didn't know then. My peers and mentors there told me no, and until I did the research myself I didn't believe it. Fast forward to today and the madhatter is blasting kids again, and I just couldn't take it so I put in a few more hours of research and now he is gone. Wish he would just say he was wrong, but I suspect that when he returns there will be a twist to his argument and he will not. I am done with this issue. I hope that we can agree that we need to work on our future for wrestling and agree to disagree when we have to, as long as the interest of the kids is at heart I am good.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
P.S. if you reference an earlier post (top of page 4), there are numbers compiled from 1961 to 2011. if you average the years (and again not a perfect science) you get approximately 4 all americans per year. Even counting the early years when there were more D1 programs in NY state and more opportunities for wrestlers we only averaged 4. In my time frame we averaged about 3. substantial difference but not the 7-12 the great one espouses.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
YOU guys in many ways are not creative in thinking.

In the '60s. '70s, mid '80s. MANY Student athletes- chose other Sports in College. It was the period when ATHLETEs played more than one Sport - many excelling in 2 or 3 Sports. Secondly, it was also, a time when College was not the most important thing- Jobs for non- college educated were numerous and the dollar went further. Some of the best High School athletes that I can remember were not interested in anything other than Sports. The push for educational success came in the late '80s...mainly, because the job market was pushing - professional careers.

Where I got sidetracked in this thread - It isnt only about AA status. It is all about the production line/ assembly line maintenance. NYS HS Wrestling in my eyes can not be defended as a Top tier wrestling state anymore... it once was. For many years I boldly made comments about the "unknown" talent in NYS because of the Travel Rules which prohibited NYS Wrestlers from going to many well known National HS Tournies. On FLO - when they were ALL praising David Taylor--- I profoundly exclaimed DAKE. Actually, prior to him winning in VA Beach. To me, he was raising his game- and- was ultra tough when riding. Something which is missing today in most wrestlers.

Look, there is no argument here. FACTs remain the same. The numbers in NYS are down. SIGNIFICANTLY. Almost two thirds more wrestling in the '70s. '80s. The eras which had Freshmen , Junior Varsity , Varsity wrestling teams- and most had wrestle-offs weekly. These were the days with NYS Olympians, Alternates and MANY 1X Sectional Champs who went on to College. AAU greatness. These became the Coaches- who most of these today Coaches learned from. They didnt have to pay for Camps, Clinics, and Clubs....they worked ALL WEEK on repetitive skills in dungeons ALL across the state- in many rooms-theirs or in others.

While I always give praise to ANY kid that walks through a wrestling room door. Never confuse today with yesterday. Different animals and I happen to know the difference. I only wish the BEST for every NYS wrestler....mountain man or flatlander. I will always Homer for Long Island wrestlers but, my eyes have seen the likes of Adams, Busakis, Thomas, Bury, Prescott, Payne, Iacovelli, Rosselli, Jantzen, Nickerson, Antonacci, DeAngelis, Macchia, Banach and 100s of others.....Todays NYS Wrestlers arent anywhere near that league. COMPLETELY, different animal- Are you actually gonna compare Vito Arujau to Vougar Arujau ??? What would Mariano do to any of these upper mid-weights today...too funny !! So, while I commend Arujau, Diakamaholis, Deprez for their success. I will proceed with caution....I just think NYS Wrestling prospects should/could/would have MORE names - going to the Big League.

BTW- Nunez, Ryder, Diakamoholis, Busciello, Teemer, Arujau, Gissendanner, Deprez....WERE NEAR LOCKs in Albany. Never, never.....NEVER should this be so evident the Summer before the State Tournament.

(For you newbees- go watch that Jantzen highlight video again. )

ps. The BEST overall Conference in College DI wrestling is the BIG 10. When you find a NYS wrestler producing/ victorious consistently in this Conference or against- wake me up. Though, you might have to dig down deep- to find the box that I am in .


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
You managed to take 500 words and say nothing once again, let's see how you set up your straw man argument:

Line 1 paragraph 1 "You guys in many ways are not creative in thinking". Statement, yes not followed by any facts to corroborate your thesis, or is this the cornerstone of your argument? We will never know because like a moth at night with a string of lights to fly to, you are off to the next implausible statement. We will disregard the first paragraph.

Paragraph 2 mixing of what is an accepted truth into your argument to create some sensibility on your part. In college it is nearly impossible to do two sports. All college sports are big business now and multi sport college athletes are going the way of the Dodo bird. Another note while I disagree with specialization as a parent there is little doubt across all sports it is a trend, and while I may not like it, there is little argument that it is paying off (or did you read report I posted yesterday).

Paragraph 3, useless opinion cloaked as truth. Conjecture at best, and if you were someone whose opinion mattered your conjecture might mean something, to me no.

Paragraph 4 there is an oblique reference to "the facts", where are they you haven't stated one. Next statement of conjecture "numbers are down" why Albert, did you look at a previous thread where I posted NYS demographics? Nah of course not, never let a fact stand in the way of your predetermined position, right?

Sad it took you a day to come up with this. I remit once again: say you are wrong and move on. Bigger men then you have done such. It is not just our successes in life but our mistakes and learning from them which is what allows us to grow. It is that last statement that I think is your problem. Your failure to grow and become more learned is stemming from a thesis that you developed 15-20 years ago and the facts be damned you will bend the truth to your distorted reality if it kills you.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
Nah...it didnt take me a day. Im not addicted to the PC - as you are. Did a buzzer go off in your azz- when I posted ???

Go get some help.

WRONG ??? lol. I have seen the BEST- and what you are seeing is the REST.


132nomore
Joined: Jan 3, 2015
Posts: 42
Everyone is entitled and most certainly has his or her own opinions
Now you say NY is not a top wrestling state as they used to be
I think we can all agree that the U.S has 50 states
If you had to rank them
Who is at the top and where does NY fall in the grand scheme ?
Personally I dint see NY any lower than TOP 10 of 50
In no specific order
We are behind
Penn
NJ
OHIO
CAL
IOWA
MINN
And I'm sure someone with far more knowledge than I
Can offer a more informed and detailed report on this subject


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
You have the right to ask me a question when you have addressed mine. How do you stand by your previous statement of NYS being inferior by the result of this years NCAA results? When will you admit the world has passed you by and you have been standing at the same bus stop for 20 years waiting for a train? We would all love to hear stories of the past, our great heritage and with guidance that will help direct our future. What we don't need is you telling us the "sky is falling" and when someone we care about slips and falls you are there to kick them when they are down. Back to my previous post, say you were wrong without a "but" and you might walk away with a modicum of your integrity.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 924
In Folkstyle:

'70s- Top 3 (prob. #2)

'80s- Top 4

'90s- Top 5-6

'00s- Top 5-6

' 10- present- PA, OH, CALI, NJ, IOWA, (Mich/Illinois/Minn)...others having development NC/DE/Indiana/ Fla/ Ok. Tenn. Ga. Once you get below the Top 5- or 6 . I cant call it Top tier. Midwest is increasingly getting better and the South is getting stronger.

Point is QUALITY DEPTH. After NYS's top kid- most weights have a drop off.,..up till about 2005 and a few weights yearly past 2005- the depth was good enough to be considered Top tier.

Ive seen our BEST kid struggle with NJ, OH, Cali, placers. PA usually has three or four kids that can go toe to toe with most of our State Champs. WHERE ??- War at the Shore, VA Beach, ALL-STAR Duals.

ALSO, just from VISUAL- the way weight certifications are being conducted in MOST of the TOP States - well, imo there is a lot of cheating going on. Has been and I guess always will be. The depth of competition within their State provokes this-

BTW- By NUMBERs....Cali, PA, Ohio, NJ - I believe today have better numbers than New York. Cali has ridiculous numbers- If, someone could just figure out how to get NYC kids to practice...lol

BEST WAY TO SMELL WHAT IM SAY'N....SEE how the seconds/thirds/ fourths from the NYS Tourney do in Va Beach, this week...it will enlighten you. Ryder (Champ) , Sciotto, Vines (Champ), Loew, others are entered in Juniors.


.........

For the sperm donor that produced the fat kid....BLAH, BLAH...BLAH !!!!

Last edited by LImarty on Mar 22, 2017; edited 12 times in total


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
So let me try to understand your point, you are saying:

"Nah nah nah nah nah, I'm rubber your glue whatever you say to me bounces off me and sticks to you".

Glad we can use this thread in future when you might, like a million monkeys at a keyboard, type something of significance, we can turn to this day when we saw the not so great LIMarty, aka Albert, reduced to changing the topic when faced with the facts. Just wanted to give you enough slack to hang yourself in front of all the people reading.

I will go back to not responding to children acting out, you have proven yourself once again incapable of having a real discussion, only one where you can go on your ridiculous unfounded rants. Maybe someone needs to change your diaper.

Bye Albert


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 137
"Bull" here is the thread. Go back a page and read Marty's words of wisdom, or rather his regurgitation in computer form.
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