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Frankie G an d Vito A


provocateur
Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1143
LImarty wrote:
No I wanted to make it more digestible to you.

Nickerson never loses to Piccininni at any weight

Jantzen would tech fall or pin Corey Rasheed at any HS weight

Dake would beat Yianni....beating Meredeth with a "hail mary" is not beating Dake

HOW CAN THIS BE - EVERYTHING IS BETTER.......LOL!!!


Now, for ALL this great talent...lol.....Who are the BEST Coaches in the Sport ??? hmmmm ??? John Smith, Terry and Tom Brands, Tom Ryan, Rob Koll, Cael Sanderson. WHEN DID THEY WRESTLE ??? .....and who were their Coaches ??? You love being stupid !!

SET UPs are TERRIBLE. Dake a World Champ, 4X NCAA Champ....is UGLY offensively- his points come by way of counter....the reason why Burroughs was the present day best....he shot on his knees which - is unorthodox .


You have disparaged Nickerson in the past. Dake is still wrestling - you can't use him to say that the good old days were better. The goalposts are always shifting. Cael Sanderson won his 4th title in 2001. He's only a few years older than Jantzen. You are as dumb as a post.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1087
Instead of critiquing my comparisons -I suggest you understand the rationality.

Can we agree that WEIGHT CERTIFICATIONs has allowed middle schoolers on a Varsity wrestling mat. Can we also agree that there are almost 2/3s less wrestling in New York than during the baby boom generation.

If, we are on the same page. You would have to accept the fact that a State which was ONCE near the top of the food chain Nationally....today, is just a handful of individuals. Then you must respect that if, you have MORE doing something - without weight certifications- than you will have older- seasoned-schooled HS aged wrestlers. This alone- will make 96, 105, 112, 119- more competitive- with juniors and seniors. Wrestlers in the 70s, 80s, and some of the 90s could not AVOID wrestlers in their Section....So most of the competition had a Section Finals of two former upperclassmen Champions. The semis and quarters were usually stacked....and then there was a new kid making his mark. For most a 1X Section title- HAD TO WAIT YOUR TURN. Some really, really good wrestlers never got out of their section.

STACKED- wrestlers that went on to DI College careers. Explain how a 1X NYS Champ/ D. Macchia- beat (2) Olympic Champs/ Banachs when in HS. ??? You like most havent seen that kind of COMPETITION....since the late 80s.

It was HERE- right HERE in NY. Today, it isnt.....Name ALL the great wrestlers NICKERSON , DAKE, GILLESPIE, DIAKOMAHOLIS beat while in HS in New York State....most never wrestled in College ALSO, you like most like the style today- NEUTRAL WRESTLING with tilts instead of falls. Looks PRETTIER. Imagine how easy it would have been to be 50% less of a wrestler back in the day.

BTW- GO to the RESULTS board- and see all the FFTs at every dual in almost all Sections....today, if you go out for wrestling - you usually get a spot. You dont have to miss meals- no wrestle-offs . Com'on !!!!!

DIFFERENT ANIMALS.

New Jersey and PA wrestlers....have to miss meals- they have to stay on weight. This is why -I have seen the 5th place wrestler from NJ /PA give our State Champ fits- and- many times beat NYs kid. COMPETITION makes wrestlers better....This is why I believe MANY of NYS's multiple time State Champs fail at AA- and/or making it at the DI level....For a very good wrestler from New York there are too many who are NOT raising their game. So, when they get to College -you have to raise your game by doing more...most wont. This is WHY I suggest to Parents to send them to JUCO/ DIII. There, they can compete without too much change.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 159
Marty, you pick and choose different topics take a point or two that is poignant draw conclusions from said information and viola you have your own Marty facts. Forfeits are not something that is localized to NY, every state is having issue with it including Pennsylvania, Michigan, and NY. Weight certification was born out of the abuses of the past and kids dying, so they had to do something about it, everyone has the same rules, even playing field. You missed the major effect Title Nine has had on our sport (and others) in your misguided thesis, yet that more then anything else has effected this sport (More NY {and nationwide} colleges had wrestling in the '70's and '80's then do now and that has more to do with your numbers then anything else you have stated). You then take a sentence worth of misguided information and think that you have stated some irrevocable fact (again maybe your inability to express yourself, or maybe your innate stupidity, not sure) then you pose a question and through the transitive power of wrestling you have a High School kid who beat another High School kid (who later became an Olympian) and you assume that the first kid gets a gold medal at the Olympics too, really? Dumb beyond anything that I am able to explain. When you speak of NJ wrestling in particular please remember that many of New Jersey schools are huge by comparison to NY schools, and wrestling is a tradition at those schools, here in NY in your much vaunted Long Island only a handful of schools have a rich tradition of wrestling and that starts from the ground up. Again nothing to do with this or that, but smaller school districts in NY has had a different effect on some schools being known for Football, others for Lacrosse and still others for wrestling, not good not bad just the way it is. By the way the information that I sent out two years ago regarding AA's in NY (where I proved you wrong by the way), always had PA way ahead of NY in AA's at the NCAA so I don't know what coconut hit you on the head and made you think that we were ever in their league.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1087
Im gonna answer you...Though, I should know better.

FORGET ABOUT AAs -ALL AMERICAN STATUS IT IS DETERMINED BY SEED AND BY STRENGTH OF A WEIGHT.....at 125 lbs this season...Lee, Rivera, and Piccinnini have distanced themselves from the rest of the field. So, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th...is light years away from the TOP 2....AND so on for the other weights. Go look at other years- and- see the depth of competition with-in brackets. This is where I do agree with you. Wrestling is down in many States- and - on the rise in others.

You bring up the 70s- 80s....the Top Eastern school was PSU/ Lehigh- NYS had wrestlers going there. In the mid-west Iowa, and Iowa St (usually ranked #1-#3 Nationally)- NYS had wrestlers going there. A lot different than today. Todays, Cornell can be considered in the same relative climate yet, still NOT BIG 10.

In the past two decades there are 2- wrestlers who were heavily recruited. Nickerson, Jantzen,...and maybe, Yianni (I don't know)....others were moderately recruited Gillespie , Glenn, Dake, O'Connor...then those who had a couple of choices. Patrovich, Masa, Lucas, Gwiziardowski....I can name 10 off the Top of my head that were recruited by the TOP WRESTLING INSTITUTION in the 70s-80s.

Your belief that things always get better....NOT IN THIS SPORT. IMO- The TEACHER is always for the most part better than the student. If, you follow ALL Sports in New York State especially, contact Sports. You will see that most of Long Island's GREATs graduated prior to 1990...with few exceptions. ALL POINTs to numbers which breed intense competition and a society that thrived on contact sports. PEER PRESSURE- you followed your friends and you wouldn't want to let them down. It wasn't about Video games or Tweets.

"At a Wrestling Tournament in PA- in 2002....I asked a mother sitting in the stands. "If her son wrestled"....Her reply: "My son couldn't get on the bus if, he didn't wrestle". Understand this and that wasn't much different than Long Island in the 70s- 80s.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 159
Don’t know how to respond to that but I will try point by point.

Paragraph 1, you have in the past where you told me “look it up”, and as recent as this thread used NCA AA’s to show how NY is falling off a cliff in quality of wrestling, now it’s no good to use AA status(PS seeds mattered in the 70-80’s too so straight numbers would be relevant because you can assume the same circumstances will even out over the years not to favor one period over another, strength of weight class doesn’t matter unless your belief is that all weight classes are weak now and all were deep back in the 70-80’s that would indict all wrestling across the country not just NY wrestling). What should we use? International wrestling?, surely not they put too much emphasis on that flashy “neutral “ position.

Paragraph 2, somehow you think I brought up the 70-80’s you did. The rest of your words are Marty facts and should be taken with a grain of salt

Paragraph 3, Recruiting in the past when there were almost 200 D1 wrestling programs is way different then today (there is that pesky title 9 problem that you glaze over when you compare yesterday to today, that problem is working itself out with women’s wrestling growing but not quickly enough). The rest of your words are Marty cause and effect facts, I don’t know how highly someone was recruited verse another individual and neither do you you just make an assumption and since it is unverifiable you just believe it to be true.

Paragraph 4, more Marty facts to be taken with a grain of salt

Paragraph 5, Anecdotal story with no basis, how many kids from beat the streets have similar stories???

Once again you’ve said nothing


mattime
Joined: Apr 8, 2008
Posts: 876
Location: Rochester NY
Can we change the post heading to something other than Frankie and Vito? There are over 100 responses and what 10 relate to the post heading. If you want to start another post please do. I get sucked into everyone's nonsense thinking that it may be pertinent. Its not hard to start a new discussion. Just a thought.
_________________
"expierence is what you get when you don't get what you want"


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1087
fatkidsdad.

YOU CANT COMPREHEND WHAT I SAID.

you're history.


faceinthemat
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
Posts: 147
LImarty wrote:
mami,

"trash talk ' ???

Maryland has how many NYS starters ??? think- 1 (coach Kerry McCoy -LI native)

Ohio St has how many NYS starters ??? know-0 (coach Tom Ryan- LI native)

Cornell has how many NYS starters ?? think- 2

Binghamton has how many NYS starters?? think -4

Buffalo has how many NYS starters ?? think- 3

Hofstra has how many NYS starters ?? think -2

Penn St has how many NYS starters ?? know -1

Oklahoma St has how many NYS starters ?? know- 1

Edinboro has how many NYS starters ?? think-1
.....................................................................

pot full -that is 15 DI starters.......If, the State was STRONG (as in STRONG ISLAND) the abundance of NYS wrestlers would fill Buffalo/Binghamton's/ Hofstra's starting rosters...If, academic entrance reasons are the problem - if, the wrestler was that superior BIG 10- schools would fill the rest.

My basis of contention- is PRESENT High School wrestling. I do not see the same ability in the present Long Island wrestler...after seeing the Eastern State Tourney which is a showcase of NYS talent...or shall I say was....very disappointing. I didn't see too many future DI stars from NYS on the mat. JMO.


Christian Boley started at Maryland for like 3 years and was on match away from AA.


faceinthemat
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
Posts: 147
LImarty wrote:
NO ....your girl is.

...................................

Crossface,

I see you are a glass half full kinda guy.

Picc. Yianni. Rasheed......

If, Vito AA's I will be quite surprised.

Lantry, Hermida, Deprez.....only, maybe With A HUGE effort .

Ive seen Gissendanner, Teemer, Pappas , Ryder and others......Not enthralled about their future at this level Nationally. JMO

EZ on the far superior to Maurer....YOU make the call Dake vs Yianni....Dake would not lose to Yianni...in College...in High School- yes. LOL....Dake was schooled in Ohio and in PA....Yianni in PA
.............................................

We'll see....Doesnt give me happiness to be RIGHT.


Dylan Ryder has had a very successfull season for a true freshman and I bet he will AA before he graduates if he can stay healthy.


faceinthemat
Joined: Dec 17, 2018
Posts: 147
LImarty wrote:
Memory serves me right Yianni...pulled out a last second victory from the kid from Wyoming (Dake he was not)....and if, Im not mistaken Dake is a 4X NCAA Champ- and- World Champ. Dake's losses in College were momentary Dake farts...typical- out of gas- low energy. Turn on the lights- Dake is a very hard wrestler to score on- Show time- DAKE beat everyone's best on the planet- David Taylor- I think 4 times...lol. Has Yianni beaten ANYONE near "Taylor" prominence .?????

Yianni will have a hard time with McKenna this season if, they meet. Take this to the Bank.

.........................

THE MAJORITY of NYS wrestlers -at DI Universities this season will either NEVER get near an AA- and/or- will not last the full 5 years at those institutions. This has been the trend. Come AA matches PA/ OHIO/ NEW JERSEY....lead NYS.....why ??? Myles Martin, NJ Joey McKenna, NJ...recruited by a former LI Native

...............................................

mami,

without knowing who your son is...I suggest you send him to a JUCO/ DIII University.....let him get a College degree.



Yanni beat 2x defending champ Heil on one damn leg Marty. You wake up! Meredith and Eirman are slouches too i suppose? FOH!


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1087
Vito Arujau

Now, that Vito has successfully maintained his 125 lb weight assignment for Cornell. Vito has the ability to UPSET those ranked in front of him. While I still think Spencer Lee is the one to beat. Vito has beaten Piccininni in FS...and I would think he will match up well with Rivera...Getting to these guys will be the obstacle but, if, Vito gets there...well, Im looking forward to seeing his ability with the Top.
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