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99 pound class


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 165
WannaB, your post is honest and truthful. Just as we “dads” are biased and you hear comments “coaches don’t care”, so are the administrators, coaches, and teachers. I try to put my bias aside (mine is that this is a “big business” for those involved where there are no free market forces to keep things in check, I.e. my tax money comes out of my pocket whether I like what is being done or not by “self proclaimed” experts who have no responsibility to the end product other then their personal conviction). That being said you have to admit there is little interest in developing a competitive middle school program (I personally believe it is because we are moving away from “competitive” situations when we can because if there are “winners” and “losers” that is polarizing and more and more our schools are about politics not what is right, it is “easier” not to set up this competitive environment because it will ruffle feathers and the school system doesn’t want high negatives.... politics). An example of this is what we are doing to the SAT test, politics are entering into what is common sense and we are now getting a test that is curved for reasons other then what it was meant to do which is give a standardized way to show what kids know. There is little chance in today’s environment we will get a competitive lacrosse, football, wrestling, basketball middle school program although it would be in our kids interest. I do not believe it is a monetary issue (but it will cost money), it is because no one wants the aggravation of 100 moms and dads from each district complaining about their little kids lack of play time. That being said we have two different problems.

1) lack of enrollment in our sport so 99 is getting looked at (and as I said earlier I am a parent who wanted their kids brought up in 7th grade) and I agree now 8th (which is when mine were allowed up at 145 and 160 for the two who wrestle) was a fair compromise. I see the problems with middle school boys with high school boys on many levels.

2) lack of an environment for middle school kids where they can prosper and learn.

They go hand in hand and more so for the talented lightweight then for the talented middle or heavy weight. My kids were able to wrestle a plethora of high school kids from average to excellent to get “better”, not so easy for the smaller kids.

That’s why you are hearing so much complaining from middle aged men, not because they are romantically attached to a weight class.

Rob Araneo


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1117
Wannab,

THEY ARE CLUELSS !!!

Your example of PA/ NJ.....is enough said . Jersey is the strength right now....high school and college.

99 lbs was once a HS appropriate weight class prior to weight certifications. Today, it is an upper level peewee weight class. NOT EVEN ARGUEABLE.


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 595
?????
Where did I ever say "coach's dont care" in regards to their job??? Dont cherry-pick something, then take it out of context.

And nobody answered my question in regards to what middle school studs are supposed to do in the absence of a strong middle school program. That wasn't even addressed. Instead, I just heard more posturing about New Jersey. We are not on their same boat.


WannaB
Joined: Feb 1, 2019
Posts: 9
Falcs...If it was left up to the coaches, the matches would be wrestled at 3:00 in front of empty gyms. They don't care............get over yourself hero....and then try reading what I tried to get thru to you.....The people who run school based programs aren't "self proclaimed" experts, neither are they perfect (see my comments re: the struggles coaches face promoting the sport in many school districts w/ Hornell being a good example - young, hard working coaches doing many things right to help kids but getting jerked around just to have a dedicated space to leave mats down).... but they do have certifications/qualifications (check NFHS materials re the philosophy of athletics at different levels, human development, etc. if you're really interested in understanding). Unfortunately some parents and admins forget that athletics/wrestling are part of the educational program and have value beyond just winning and losing. Too many districts do not value what wrestling does to help the kids who often need it most and look at it as an inconvenience. Wrestling coaches fight those battles every day and the good coaches try to develop every wrestler in their rooms, not just the good/great ones. Parents are naturally more interested in their child and forget that the coach's goals are broader than theirs.

Big kids dad - I agree with you re the "wussification" of our society (the SAT thing is a good example) but this is an issue of retention/keeping kids involved so they do their best wrestling at the end of their careers (not at the youth level) and help make the sport stronger. Wrestling has one of the lowest, if not the lowest, retention rates of all sports from youth to varsity. How many kids start out loving the sport only to drop out along the way? Again, if kids are big enough and can pass selective classification, the opportunity to compete on the varsity level will still exist going forward IF 99 is dropped in two years. Those who are too small or can't selectively classify (I would say a small number) can still develop outside of the varsity room/competition, can't they? Please don't misinterpret my comments re the attachment to 99 (romance is great but I think parents EGOS cause a lot of the complaining - "my kid should be able to wrestle varsity in 7th and/or 8th grade" as so many good wrestlers have prior). Your kids must have been tough to qualify and compete as middle weights!

On a positive note - the NCAA recently surveyed ex wrestlers and the results indicated that the bond between wrestlers and their ex-coaches was stronger than any sport, Section 5 won DI and D2 in NYS, girls wrestling is growing, and the level of wrestling at the college level is off the charts. Whatever happens with 99, the sport will continue to exist. Hopefully we will see growth, fewer forfeits, increased interest, stronger modified programs, etc. if the weight classes change in the future.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 165
WannaB, this might be the wrong thread for this post but my opinion about retention I have written about exhaustively here and other websites. To be as brief as possible, I believe with wrestling (and my personal experience is from a weak wrestling school, Ward Melville in Suffolk county, but I have heard similar stories from friends in other “weak wrestling” districts) many programs do not truly back the JV wrestlers. It is an honor to be a Varsity wrestler but the kids working on the JV line up can be working just as hard they need matches (which our school didn’t provide much of) and they should be learning more about technique and less about cutting weight. I’m sure others will disagree but all my kids across multiple sports have expressed since they were little they wanted to compete. They want to practice to get better but in some programs that means you may only get 6-8 matches as a JV wrestler in 4 months, that stinks.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1117
What bothers me about this whole topic. "People not interested in fixing the problem - just substituting subjective solutions".

WHAT I HAVE LEARNED ABOUT NYS WRESTLING- PRIMARILY REGIONS/SECTIONS/ AREAS.

1) If, you can cheat weight certs and no one is looking - halaluyah !!!
2) If, it benefits you....it's ok.
3) Supporting your own selfishness is more important than the sport
4) Rationality is not feasible when it effects you or your area
5) what's best for the sport should come first..but, doesn't.

these are just a few things- I could go on.

For 50 yrs- neighbors New Jersey and Pennsylvania have displayed the path and the avenue in production. It isn't about INDIVIDUAL success when growing a sport. It is about an effort by every school- every district to maintain a healthy environment for sports. NYS Peewee Clubs aren't comparable to PA/NJ ... Both states have their fair share of 7th and 8th grade studs- but, you wont see them in a High School line-up. The assembly-line production was once valued by PEOPLE and wrestling people .Today it has been coerced by treating upper level peewees as the solution in fixing the problem . Which in fact is actually destroying the product.

The 99 lb weight class should not carry any wrestlers who are not deemed High School aged- THIS SHOULD BE IRONCLAD !! To simplify , a starting weight should be deemed reasonable for HS aged wrestlers. Now, for the misgivings of the " middle school " aged wrestlers who are not getting a their chance at acquiring more matches against quality opponents . The formation of Club wrestling does provide trips to National events. So, the whole idea of getting matches is an obvious exaggeration of the truth.

Again, the only reason WHY the push for youth wrestlers into Varsity sports....is a selfish acceptance by both Parent and Coach . NOT worrying about the condition of the sport within their school and/or district. Funny, PA/ NJ have shown us the appropriate chain- is the way to go and to continue a healthy production line.

STOP !!!! Reinventing the wheel. Go Backtothefuture !!!

To me it is obvious and has been for approx. 15 yrs. NYS moving to two divisions and accepting 12/13 yr olds on Varsity mats- has seen a decline in numbers across the state. Every dual has forfeits -some with multiple forfeits. The watered down competition - has made the state tournament preliminary rounds full of "falls". SOCIALOGICAL Changes and EXPANSION the latter many have called for- has ultimately changed the level of competition within the state. MORE should be calling for the elimination of "youth" wrestlers wrestling Varsity matches- and- do whatever they have to -to build quality middle school competition. Getting more kids together -on the mat in middle school - this core will move up for 4 yrs of High School competition- Keeping them interested without quitting the sport in this school transition is the hard part.

Last edited by LImarty on May 23, 2019; edited 2 times in total


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 595
Right. They dont care when matches start. Very true. That's what I was referring to, HERO! It's been a battle on long Island for years. I said nothing more about coaches than that. Nothing sillier than bolting to be on time for a 5pm scheduled dual, then finding out your kid wrestled already. Yes, in that aspect, if should be about the parents.

Last edited by Falcs96 on May 22, 2019; edited 1 time in total


quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 266
https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/sports/2019/05/sad-but-necessary-changes-could-be-coming-to-piaa-wrestling-weight-classes.html?outputType=amp
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