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Article from CNN- Have a take?


Velcro1545
Joined: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 8
Below is an article from CNN.com, take the time to read it and leave a take on it. It throws wrestling in with the discussion at the beginning. I have a couple things that come to mind after reading it, but I’ll wait to comment until after some people read it as not to put ideas into anyone’s head. Also, I hope this stays on topic, because this could affect our sport both negatively and positively over time.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/03/27/kids.ultimate.fight.ap/index.html


WrestlerofthePast
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 979
I see it as no different than Karate, Judo, or any other martial art. As long is it is done safely with modified rules, I don't foresee a problem with children starting early. I don't see how it's any different than High School Boxing. If they have high school boxing, there must be youth boxing as well.


jawkick555
Joined: Feb 6, 2008
Posts: 12
Velcro1545 wrote:
Below is an article from CNN.com, take the time to read it and leave a take on it. It throws wrestling in with the discussion at the beginning. I have a couple things that come to mind after reading it, but I’ll wait to comment until after some people read it as not to put ideas into anyone’s head. Also, I hope this stays on topic, because this could affect our sport both negatively and positively over time.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/03/27/kids.ultimate.fight.ap/index.html


I hate when people do this stuff. If people are exposed to vilonce, that does not mean they will become violent in the future. It is the same with people saying video games make kids kill people. It doesn't. That is a choice made by the person. If my son wants to box, or do ufc i'm fine with it as long as he does not get agrressive outside of the sport. He is 9 and has wrestled since he was like 2 with me on our living room floor, and now is doing well in youth tournaments, but this has not affected him.

Let the kids play there sports and games and leave them alone.


evil.aaronm
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 284
What "civilized" society seems to forget is that we're not, in fact, civilized. That's a facade; an unrealistic ideal. In truth, we're brutal, bloody, mean, vindictive, cut-throat beings. And that's the way it's supposed to be. We're really no different, conceptually, than the wolves or dogs we see scrapping in play, nipping at each others ears from an early age. We're _meant_ to be combative; it's part of our DNA. Without that, we wouldn't have a survival instinct - not that we really need one as much as when we were chased by saber-toothed tigers, but I don't know how you could breed it out and have mankind continue.

Though, I'm not sold on the "self-defense" argument, and they rely on it too much. I think the fear among some folks is that these kids taking this training aren't going to be defending themselves; they're going to be the bullies picking on other kids. I can see it happening. Strength without discipline can be dangerous, and just because a kid trains in MMA doesn't automatically mean he'll be disciplined.

I wouldn't encourage this type of training - I think wrestling's more than adequate - but I think society _should_ get back to its more fundamental nature. Glorifying violence, and profiting from it, is disgusting, but accepting its role in shaping social structures would move us back toward a more natural state of human interaction. Which reminds me: I kind-of wish we could resume duels. Imagine how much quicker problems would be solved if two guys went out and settled their issues mano-y-mano, rather than tie up the courts with interminable litigation. The concept of respect would see a renaissance if you knew that the guy you were taunting, or whose girlfriend you were bugging, was legally allowed to try and whoop your xxxx. Wishful thinking...



BullDogBrower
Joined: Mar 2, 2008
Posts: 104
I know there is going to be a pile of "well if it's organized and structured it's ok" well HorseCRAP! Anybody that gets off on watching little kids beat the junk out of each other needs a straight jacket in short order.



jukeboxhero
Joined: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 1680
Location: In a town without a name
evil.aaronm wrote:
What "civilized" society seems to forget is that we're not, in fact, civilized. That's a facade; an unrealistic ideal. In truth, we're brutal, bloody, mean, vindictive, cut-throat beings. And that's the way it's supposed to be. We're really no different, conceptually, than the wolves or dogs we see scrapping in play, nipping at each others ears from an early age. We're _meant_ to be combative; it's part of our DNA. Without that, we wouldn't have a survival instinct - not that we really need one as much as when we were chased by saber-toothed tigers, but I don't know how you could breed it out and have mankind continue.

Though, I'm not sold on the "self-defense" argument, and they rely on it too much. I think the fear among some folks is that these kids taking this training aren't going to be defending themselves; they're going to be the bullies picking on other kids. I can see it happening. Strength without discipline can be dangerous, and just because a kid trains in MMA doesn't automatically mean he'll be disciplined.

I wouldn't encourage this type of training - I think wrestling's more than adequate - but I think society _should_ get back to its more fundamental nature. Glorifying violence, and profiting from it, is disgusting, but accepting its role in shaping social structures would move us back toward a more natural state of human interaction. Which reminds me: I kind-of wish we could resume duels. Imagine how much quicker problems would be solved if two guys went out and settled their issues mano-y-mano, rather than tie up the courts with interminable litigation. The concept of respect would see a renaissance if you knew that the guy you were taunting, or whose girlfriend you were bugging, was legally allowed to try and whoop your xxxx. Wishful thinking...


You're genetic argument is flawed. Much like many other species, based on adolescent development, certain human traits are either supressed or exploited. Basic psychology. If raised in a violent environment, one will become violent. If raised in a calm, trainquil, supporting environment, one will not be prone to violence. What you're also forgetting is the human's ability to reason. Most animals lack basic reasoning skills that we take for granted. Being alive, and apart of a society helps shape the behavior of future humans. The reason why traditional martial arts are accepted is because it stresses non-violent behavior. It however does stress using violent actions when put into physical danger. This MMA for kids is ridiculous. It is not teaching discipline, it is teaching these kids how to effectively injure others. I agree that it is good for self-defense, but there needs to be some sort of correctional/diciplinary system for these kids.



Hambone
Joined: Jan 30, 2007
Posts: 464
If the people from CNN ran our country, we'd have a nation of pansies much like France. There is nothing wrong with knowing how to fight or defending yourself. I personally wouldn't have my six year old ultimate fighting, but that's my choice. There is nothing wrong with the discipline that goes along with this kind of training in boxing, wrestling, marial arts or ultimate fighting. A strict regimen of training at a young age can usually carry forth to a disciplined lifestyle as an adult.


evil.aaronm
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 284
jukeboxhero wrote:
You're genetic argument is flawed. Much like many other species, based on adolescent development, certain human traits are either supressed or exploited. Basic psychology. If raised in a violent environment, one will become violent. If raised in a calm, trainquil, supporting environment, one will not be prone to violence. What you're also forgetting is the human's ability to reason. Most animals lack basic reasoning skills that we take for granted. Being alive, and apart of a society helps shape the behavior of future humans. The reason why traditional martial arts are accepted is because it stresses non-violent behavior. It however does stress using violent actions when put into physical danger. This MMA for kids is ridiculous. It is not teaching discipline, it is teaching these kids how to effectively injure others. I agree that it is good for self-defense, but there needs to be some sort of correctional/diciplinary system for these kids.


I don't discount the influence of environment on development - I wrote more than one paper on it in college - but to imply that our violent tendencies are not innate is simply overlooking the mountains of evidence that support that postulation. In fact, the fundamental need for violence in humans should be consider an axiom: can one seriously doubt it? Has there been a period of time when man has not been beating the snot out of man? What does it say about our species that so much of our resources go toward the destruction of our enemies - though under the guise of "defense of our country"? Why is that the first thing we think of for new applications for high-tech is, "How can I use this as a weapon?"

Be that as it may, how do you explain the need for parents of small children - let's say 18 months, simply because I've seen this more than once - to tell those kids, "We don't hit," in response to just that: one toddler slugging another? The degree of severity may be influenced by the socio-economic status, and, hence, the environment, but to say it won't happen among even ordinarily peaceful parents is far-fetched. Little kids hit each other and anyone they can get close to all the time. In fact, we have to train it out of them, precisely by saying, "We don't hit."

Try this, sometime, as a cruel experiment: take two normally docile people and confine them to austere conditions, like isolating them together on a desert island. Then, over time, reduce their food supplies until there's barely enough for one person to survive. What sort of outcome would you expect? I'll tell ya: it would be just like the violence seen among prisoners in the death camps, like Auschwitz, or Dachau, during the Nazi regime. Keep in mind, these people had no previous context for these conditions, and many of them, in normal circumstances, would recoil in horror at the idea of what they had done - simply to survive - during their torture.

Or, another extreme: road rage. Why is violence and aggression a common response to being crammed together like sardines on the highways? It's not something we learn: we don't teach road rage in driver ed. It's because people are inherently violent.

Last nugget: what was the first crime in the Bible (demonstrative even if you're not a fan of any particular religion): "Cain slew Abel." Hmm. These guys lived just outside of Paradise, had the entirety of Nature's bounty at their disposal, had never _conceived of_ violence, let alone seen it, and yet one brother axed another. Even if metaphorical, still, what's it say about mankind?

I'm telling ya, we're still knuckle-dragging, rock-banging cavemen - just in fancier clothes.

But, we agree on this: MMA for kids is questionable, to say the least.


evil.aaronm
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 284
Hambone wrote:
If the people from CNN ran our country, we'd have a nation of pansies much like France. There is nothing wrong with knowing how to fight or defending yourself. I personally wouldn't have my six year old ultimate fighting, but that's my choice. There is nothing wrong with the discipline that goes along with this kind of training in boxing, wrestling, marial arts or ultimate fighting. A strict regimen of training at a young age can usually carry forth to a disciplined lifestyle as an adult.


Nah, don't blame CNN - they just report the news, even if their version is completely biased. For ending up a nation of pansies, blame those parents who complained about corporal punishment at school. They're probably the same ones who took away scoring for little kids' soccer and baseball games because it "hurt little Johnny's self-esteem."

Training in sports is often a good thing, if only to let kids work off some steam, but, as I said, just training in any of the martial arts doesn't automatically instill discipline in participants. Didn't you see any of the Karate Kid movies? The bad guys were all martial arts dudes, too! Wink


518LEM757
Joined: Jan 9, 2008
Posts: 25
Alright well im in class right now so i dont really have the time to read all of the other replies so i could possibly be restating what people have said previously.
I am pro-MMA before you assume anything.
To start off everyone sees karate as a great sport to get into. Due to the discipline, the strength and the dedication. MMA is exactly the same thing. It teaches anyone who participates what it's like to have to work for something. Especially anyone who has been successful in the sport, they didnt get there easily by any means. They had to train hard and be disciplined with their diet and plenty of other things. This plays along with all wrestlers, hence why so many successful people in the world have been wrestlers, they understand the quality of hard work.

Everyone looks at MMA as a street fight when it really isnt. there are more injuries and deaths in any other sport that you can think of off of the top of your head. It's an extremely safe sport and something I'de recommend everyone to get into. It's a great stress buster as well as something you can learn alot of lessons through.


518LEM757
Joined: Jan 9, 2008
Posts: 25
pro as in "for" mma.
not professional sorry haha just realized how that looks.


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