Livinginthepast wrote:

quickpick wrote:

Umm....Pennsylvania does have a dual meet state championship. Also nothing further divides the elite more than having an emphasis only on tournaments. Why would some kids even go out for the sport if they knew they weren't ever going to win anything. Also, I don't think there will be many Ffts at the dual meet state championship. The majority of the teams have full lineups and probably won't dodge much. What better example for how dual meets should run than that? Welcome back Marty, always love to hear your opinion! Even if it is the same stale, biased opinion we've heard the last 20 years.

Marty is right on the money. Go out and really watch some high school wrestling in NYS and you will see what has happened to the talent base, etc. In Section V, we have excellent wrestlers dodging other wrestlers (coaches support this) to protect their records, etc. I've watched it 7 times this year where there could have been excellent matchups, and there was bumping or dodging. Case in point: last weekend, Fairport's 182 should have wrestled Victor's best 182 wrestler, match was not in doubt, Fairport puts out 182 starter, and Victor moves their 182 up. Why? So Fairport guy pins quickly. Why didn't this match happen? And as far as forfeits go: rampant in the sport. All over the place, just check the box scores. It's terrible. Marty may be off his rocker sometimes, but I think his opinion here is not stale....pretty darn accurate.

bigkidsdad wrote:

Marty I thought after our last encounter here we banished you to the darkest depths of Mordor where you belong. Unfortunately you seem to keep coming back ignoring facts espousing your dark rhetoric as fact over and over until someone believes you. Point after mindless point you are wrong yet you power forward with an amazing fortitude towards some nameless goal and just like last time when I take your words and analyze them and address them one by one they do not hold water. And since you brought politics into this I will quote NY senator Tip O'Neill "you are absolutely entitled to your opinion sir, but you are not entitled to your own "facts"".

1). NY teams do not compete with out of state teams because there is no way to accurately access points for wrestlers whom compete. While this may not be a problem for "studs" on a team it does effect the average wrestler whom needs points for their league, county, and state seeding. Any coach who for his own pride took his team out of NY to wrestle out of State regularly would be hurting his kids when it came time for the individual "all important" tournaments that you espouse. That's why most coaches don't do it not for "fear" of losing.
2). As I showed you before with NCAA results from the last 30/40 years NY as a state is about where it has always been. I went so far as to provide you links to my information and where I sourced it, your silence regarding our discussion here and your12 month sebatical from this forum only proves you had no "real" answer to my facts just your usual rhetorical unproven diatribe.
3). Article after article on the subject of coaching (all sports, but especially wrestling), has addressed the naive coach who wanted to coach as he was coached in the '70's and '80's has failed to evolve and denies the fully developed kids that are now coming into sports, all sports. Different isn't better or worse it is just different. Having stuck your head in a hole for 30 years only to come up for air intermittently has made you unaware of the greatness of some of these kids. Yes they would not respond to the coaching of old because they are different, mostly they are more worldly and smarter, but that's only scratching at the surface of their differences.
4). Article after article has shown that the top tier "elite" wrestler (Dayton Fix, Yanni, Spencer Lee, Adam B. Etc...) is way better then their predecessors (please don't make me prove this to you there is plenty of info out there, unfortunately it is not usually in picture book format so someone may have to help you). These wrestlers start at a very young age and before middle school are more proficient then many of their high school counterparts from a few decades ago. What this has done for the sport is elevate our "superstar" status but in HS has deterred many multi sport kids from being able to compete and enjoy entering into a sport where there is such a disparity between the beginner and very best. Which brings me to my next point:
5). The current way we watch sports is not conducive to the individual wrestling tournament. People have less and less time and rarely do people have 12 hours to watch an individual tournament from beginning to end. The NFL recognized this years ago. They knew that fans would watch their team through thick and thin, but how do you create interest when a "fans" team isn't in it? Answer fantasy football, now every week fans watch despite their teams success or failure, win win. Now back to wrestling. It has long been known that wrestlings' numbers were in decline. That is not because of an apparent "softness" it is because wrestling is an incestual sport meaning that unless you had a parent who wrestled you were highly unlikely to join the sport. So kids of wrestlers join great but when a wrestling dad has only girls or a kid who just isn't cut out for the sport that bloodline dies and there aren't great numbers replacing them. What is our future? Women's wrestling and the "Dual Meet". I am sure you have problems with both.
The dual meet as espoused by previous posts grants the average kid the ability to make a difference. Maybe he can't beat Jonathan Lowe but he can have his entire school cheer him because he kept his match to a major decision, what's wrong with that? Maybe that kid becomes an average HS wrestler but goes on to college and has an exponential learning curve under the right coaches and then on to the Olympics... isn't that what Kerry McCoy did? He started in middle school, wouldn't it have been a shame if he hit kids like Jonathan Lowe and Sammy DePerez early in his career and thought he didn't measure up and decided to do something else? Difference between then and now is that the internet has made information available to kids that was never before available. A kid knows right away he "stinks" and may want to do something he is better at, that is not "soft" or "weak" it is actually "smart".

Rob Araneo

Ohh yeah now is the time in your response where you invoke impossible to confirm rhetoric combined with quotes out of context to make yourself appear intelligent and aware, but not really.... to you LI

LImarty wrote:

LMFAO !!

Astounded....Guess, there must be a lot of "Leftists" here. A difference of opinion always seems to produce the manure on these Forums.

Think this...."While Rome burned. the minstrels kept playing". For many who cant figure this out. YOUR DUAL CHAMPIONSHIPs come at a time when Dual Competition is at it's worst- when competition has escape artists missing each other.....more forfeits than are imaginable.....pins and techs are the norm AND a majority of Teams that cant fill weight classes.

Like I've said. The SIGNIFICANCE prior was the UE Duals....and for many years Long Island Teams/Coaches didn't need to make the trip. Now, it's IMPORTANT.....too funny !!!

Again. I'm more in support of having a Northern HS Championship and a Long Island Champion....meet at a College match. I'm also PROGRESSIVE in thinking that this could be the same for an Individual Invitational Championship too.
.........................

quick, I wasn't challenging ANYONE'S knowledge and/or input of this Sport. My suspect is more about PRACTICAL/ LOGICAL thought about costs etc. etc. DUAL Meets seldom have Stud vs Stud. Did we forget WHO was the POSTER who brought together NY vs NJ for the past some-odd years ???
.......................

Lastly, on this Topic....Funny, how neither Massapequa (Sec. VIII) and/ or Brentwood (Sec. XI) isn't going to Syracuse......LOLL..... something about points ??? Finalists in their Sections...losing modestly to the Top seeds in Syracuse yet, not invited. Even this....has bias !!!

YOU GUYS GOTTA GET OVER IT....."OURS IS BIGGER THAN YOURS".

LImarty wrote:

You weren't called a "leftist"....the majority who do not like an opposing opinion...today. Seem to dislike any other opinion but, their own. CONTRARIANS are not of their taste.

..............

bigkidsdad.,

Rasheed would be teched by Jantzen and pinned by DeAngelis

Mike Macchia would have made both Yianni and Vito wish they didn't get on the mat.

Even Kyle Dake- in HS...would have had taken his lumps- with Jon Masa, JP O'Connor. Ryan Maurer and would have been blasted by Jantzen

Corey Jantzen, Lou Ruggierello, Troy Nickerson, Bob Bury, Jeff Thomas, Mike Macchia, Troy Bousakis.....would have beaten

Nick Piccininni at ANY weight...CONVINCINGLY.

I guess Paul Liguori wouldn't beat Justin Vines.....LOL !!!! Ask Coach Gillespie about Mike Macchia.

....I didn't have to go back too far. The Sport has declined locally. NCAAs AAs from New York State are in decline as well. Look at ALL the Multiple X - NYS Champs the past 10-years....and ALL the potential production at the DI level. FAILURE for most to even adorn a DI singlet.