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Spencerport coaching change.


the kind one
Joined: Oct 18, 2003
Posts: 1067
njfan545 wrote:
Well this makes sense, as an avid wrestling fan from new jersey the recent rumblings around the nj wrestling forums. The quick departure of bill jacoutot jr and his assistant from his current coaching position. The rumor is he left his current position to take a job in his home state. now this makes more sense!


links to nj forum please


mbsuxx
Joined: Feb 3, 2007
Posts: 462
Coacj J Jr. was at Peddie School back in '07 for about a year.......Peddie School is a Blair Academy type school........not sure why left after a year or where he went.


HARDCORE
Joined: Feb 13, 2006
Posts: 439
I can not find any posts on the Jersey forums to back this. Not saying that there are not any. I just cannot find them.

Kind One,
It is sad to watch this unfold. There is damage done and more will surely follow. I have always enjoyed following the Rangers. In a sport where long time tradition and success are a rare combination Spencerport has beat the odds. No matter how this plays out Port will survive and thrive. While great coaching plays a major role I believe that the community plays just as big a role. Fathers teaching sons. Sons teaching their sons. Brothers teaching brothers. Uncles teaching nephews. Alumni throwing in their support. A youth feeder program second to none. Hundreds of fans and relatives filling the bleachers match after match. A schedule as tough as any in the state.
This is just a road bump. Tradition will triumph.


SectionVAlum
Joined: Apr 3, 2012
Posts: 8
Coaching is teaching and all extra-curricular activities are an extension of the classroom. It is ludicrous to think that teaching and coaching are mutually exclusive. Why would I be ashamed by taking pride in my profession and wanting only the best educating our children (including yours). Perhaps doctors should have no ethical standards on malpractice? However, all I did was state facts and instead of addressing those you chose to try and make a personal attack on me instead of speaking on the issue at hand.


Pearl
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
Posts: 26
SectionVAlum wrote:
Coaching is teaching and all extra-curricular activities are an extension of the classroom. It is ludicrous to think that teaching and coaching are mutually exclusive. Why would I be ashamed by taking pride in my profession and wanting only the best educating our children (including yours). Perhaps doctors should have no ethical standards on malpractice? However, all I did was state facts and instead of addressing those you chose to try and make a personal attack on me instead of speaking on the issue at hand.


You are a professional educator? In my opinion, your comments sound like information from the AD. If you are not AD, get your facts straight from your circles. A lot of Spencerport people have come together to support D'Ambra because of his character and excellent coaching. His athletes and parents will attest to this, THAT'S A FACT, I WAS THERE. No one has NOT supported him except the AD. Dismissed from teaching three times? Really? If you are faculty you will know that there is a "totem pole". Mr. D'Ambra was "cut" for BUDGET REASONS last year, FACT. Decline in numbers? Have you actually seen those numbers? Where? Top heavy? You must have not gone to the jr.junior Ranger sessions? Were you at Jamestown? FACT: One call was questioned because of an athlete being punched in the face. FACT.
Let’s see your facts and produce documents of these allegations. See if your 20 years (blah blah blah)of circles have those please.


mbsuxx
Joined: Feb 3, 2007
Posts: 462
According to the Monroe High Township HS Website (New Jersey) Coach J Jr. is their Wrestling Coach.


SectionVAlum
Joined: Apr 3, 2012
Posts: 8
Again this is why I have avoided posting on these forums, as people get away from civil discourse and instead become extremely hostile. I have provided the information I have heard as that is what people asked for. Just because it is a perspective that varies from yours does not make it any less credible or sensible. My documents are the same as yours- non existent, and as I stated before come from observation (yes, I am everywhere) and what I have heard. This could be incorrect (although I still think you should check your facts on the dismissal as a teacher because it wasn't quite a numbers game), as could your information. The only people who truly know are those who are directly involved in the decision making process, and are hired because of their ability to do so. As with any institution, there are strict guidelines to follow, especially when it comes to dismissing employees. I find it very hard to believe that the Spencerport School District would put itself in a poor legal position by not following dismissal protocols simply over a wrestling coach position. This would of course include legal grounds to terminate.

It is very easy to lose sight of discourse and multiple perspectives when passion is a large factor. It is clear that some people are upset about this move (although we cannot say all because there is no data/survey to back that up), but it is also clear that there have been issues with Spencerport wrestling over the past few years. As a professional educator, I hope that the school district moves forward with what is best for the student-athletes, as that is coaching is all about.


QUIET
Joined: Jan 9, 2005
Posts: 735
Not getting a position is not the same as 'getting fired.' And PE hours were reduced due to enrollment which affected part time teachers first. I know that as a FACT. Coaching positions do NOT require you to be an employee of the district. (Check out recent hockey and football appointments - esp football where a coach from another district was brought in and 'promised first dibs on the next open PE job'). Tony has done a great job as wrestling coach. Period. That was always the 'excuse' when an outsider was brought in over a staff member. The Admin and BOE will hide behind 'it's a personnel decision.' The Super will say 'coaching appointments are the responsibility of the AD.' The BOE or Admin will not overrule the decision of an AD. The motives of the AD will be left to speculation - since his record as a coach can not possibly be questioned.


spidermonkey
Joined: Nov 9, 2010
Posts: 189
I'm going to chime in here again as an unbiased observer, but also a teacher (not in section V). SectionVAlum--you state that the coach was "dismissed" from 3 different teaching positions in the Spencerport school district, yet you have no facts on why. If a teacher is "dismissed" from one position, s/he is usually not asked back for another within the same district. If they had 3 positions within the same district, one can only think they were bounced around because of budget issues (this commonly happens as administrators know that the person knows the kids and school, and also to avoid a grievance by the union for releasing a teacher). Also, there are usually solid grounds for dismissal, whatever that word means here, since the teacher's union would fight if it were unjustified. If he was tenured, it is extremely costly to "dismiss" a teacher ($30,000+ in legal fees, according to what I was once told by an administrator), and in that case the union comes in even stronger (since they can't do a lot if the person is untenured). If he wasn't "dismissed", as in fired, it is usual protocol to get "pink slipped" which is due to budget cuts. SO, if you are not willing to clarify what you are referring to here, these statements can't hold much water on a forum like this. We all see our colleagues and think some do a great job and some do not, but we do not publicly declare our opinion as to whether s/he is fit to educate our children.

Next, you allude to weakness in the lower levels of a program. If this is youth, modified, or JV (lower levels) what measuring stick are you using? Frankly, there is none to measure strength at those levels aside from massive number drops because 3 years is not a huge amount of time to make that kind of impact. If you make such a statement, you should certainly back it up with numbers, because that is really ALL that matters from a budget standpoint. From the tone of this forum, it sounds like practically everyone in the sport in Spencerport very much liked and respected this guy. The commitment to coaching a wrestling program huge, practically a charity job, and if this guy ran the whole program from youth up (which your posts imply), still kept the team within top 10 in the state, calling what he did a "failure" is unjust. I encourage you to try it one day.

Please note, this is the discourse you wanted, not an argument or accusation.


Pearl
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
Posts: 26
QUIET wrote:
Not getting a position is not the same as 'getting fired.' And PE hours were reduced due to enrollment which affected part time teachers first. I know that as a FACT. Coaching positions do NOT require you to be an employee of the district. (Check out recent hockey and football appointments - esp football where a coach from another district was brought in and 'promised first dibs on the next open PE job'). Tony has done a great job as wrestling coach. Period. That was always the 'excuse' when an outsider was brought in over a staff member. The Admin and BOE will hide behind 'it's a personnel decision.' The Super will say 'coaching appointments are the responsibility of the AD.' The BOE or Admin will not overrule the decision of an AD. The motives of the AD will be left to speculation - since his record as a coach can not possibly be questioned.


Thank you for your post "Quiet". Hostile? Outraged more like it. Comments like those that are not supporting the coach is exactly the reaction you will get. The head coach (who by the way was supported by hundreds of people last night who were willing to stand up for him) was asked to resign for personal reasons. Were you there? Do you know that there are other coaches in the Spencerport district have reduced classes and only teaching 1 class? FACT. This was due to budget cuts also. AD might reserve the right to hire who she/he wants, but no one is rallying behind him at school board meetings because of his decision.......


SectionVAlum
Joined: Apr 3, 2012
Posts: 8
Thank you for the discourse- greatly appreciated. I believe that the same years Coach D'Ambra's teaching positions were reduced the district hired positions in the same area, which is again common knowledge. And anyone in education knows that a full-time posting would almost always go to a part-time employee, who is also a coach, before an outside hire. If a person in this position is passed over 3 times, it certainly raises red flags as to why, which is the point I am trying to make. Again, none of us know the reasons for these moves (I will refrain from using "dismissed" as upon reflection that is not the best word choice), but it brings attention to abilities as an educator.

As I have said before, as educators we must absolutely call one another out. We must constantly be improving our practice and profession. The best way to do this is by self-policing. Sometimes it may be a hard pill to swallow, but is ultimately better for the students (and yes I have been called out by colleagues).

As far as numbers go, I was able to attend one JV match and was alarmed at the number of forfeits for Spencerport (although I did not tally numbers as I was not aware I would be referencing them later on) as well as the performance for what has always been such a prestigious program.

I think everyone is inadvertently making a great point. If there are so many people outraged with this decision, why would the athletic director do this? What does he have to benefit from all that has transpired? Would he bring such negative attention to the athletic department as a whole without valid reason?

Mob mentalities are very interesting, and can often cause people to put on fronts. The very parents that were at the board meeting could have been the same ones who went to the athletic director with complaints or information that provided grounds for firing. People do not usually wish to ostracise themselves, especially when it could effect their children and their athletic careers.

Just some food for thought....


Pearl
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
Posts: 26
SectionVAlum wrote:
Thank you for the discourse- greatly appreciated. I believe that the same years Coach D'Ambra's teaching positions were reduced the district hired positions in the same area, which is again common knowledge. And anyone in education knows that a full-time posting would almost always go to a part-time employee, who is also a coach, before an outside hire. If a person in this position is passed over 3 times, it certainly raises red flags as to why, which is the point I am trying to make. Again, none of us know the reasons for these moves (I will refrain from using "dismissed" as upon reflection that is not the best word choice), but it brings attention to abilities as an educator.

As I have said before, as educators we must absolutely call one another out. We must constantly be improving our practice and profession. The best way to do this is by self-policing. Sometimes it may be a hard pill to swallow, but is ultimately better for the students (and yes I have been called out by colleagues).

As far as numbers go, I was able to attend one JV match and was alarmed at the number of forfeits for Spencerport (although I did not tally numbers as I was not aware I would be referencing them later on) as well as the performance for what has always been such a prestigious program.

I think everyone is inadvertently making a great point. If there are so many people outraged with this decision, why would the athletic director do this? What does he have to benefit from all that has transpired? Would he bring such negative attention to the athletic department as a whole without valid reason?

Mob mentalities are very interesting, and can often cause people to put on fronts. The very parents that were at the board meeting could have been the same ones who went to the athletic director with complaints or information that provided grounds for firing. People do not usually wish to ostracise themselves, especially when it could effect their children and their athletic careers.

Just some food for thought....


you must have a school district that allows you to post during your work day on their computers. interesting that your focus is this right now...


Pearl
Joined: Feb 6, 2012
Posts: 26
Pearl wrote:
SectionVAlum wrote:
Thank you for the discourse- greatly appreciated. I believe that the same years Coach D'Ambra's teaching positions were reduced the district hired positions in the same area, which is again common knowledge. And anyone in education knows that a full-time posting would almost always go to a part-time employee, who is also a coach, before an outside hire. If a person in this position is passed over 3 times, it certainly raises red flags as to why, which is the point I am trying to make. Again, none of us know the reasons for these moves (I will refrain from using "dismissed" as upon reflection that is not the best word choice), but it brings attention to abilities as an educator.

As I have said before, as educators we must absolutely call one another out. We must constantly be improving our practice and profession. The best way to do this is by self-policing. Sometimes it may be a hard pill to swallow, but is ultimately better for the students (and yes I have been called out by colleagues).

As far as numbers go, I was able to attend one JV match and was alarmed at the number of forfeits for Spencerport (although I did not tally numbers as I was not aware I would be referencing them later on) as well as the performance for what has always been such a prestigious program.

I think everyone is inadvertently making a great point. If there are so many people outraged with this decision, why would the athletic director do this? What does he have to benefit from all that has transpired? Would he bring such negative attention to the athletic department as a whole without valid reason?

Mob mentalities are very interesting, and can often cause people to put on fronts. The very parents that were at the board meeting could have been the same ones who went to the athletic director with complaints or information that provided grounds for firing. People do not usually wish to ostracise themselves, especially when it could effect their children and their athletic careers.

Just some food for thought....


you must have a school district that allows you to post during your work day on their computers. interesting that your focus is this right now...
I might add that I am off today from work.



CombatSpeed
Joined: Feb 26, 2006
Posts: 105
SectionVAlum - you are a disgrace to the teaching profession. You give educators a bad name. I am calling you out (guess what my profession is???). Your arrogance on the matter at hand astonishes me. Your so-called "facts" without proof confounds me. Your vilification of a very good coach and person of character sickens me. We as teachers are a family, and right now you are the red-headed step-child (excuse the pun).

Obviously, the Spencerport community is a family who loves one another and looks out for the well-being of each other. I believe that the problem with education is found with our administrators. Administrators who have never been proven in an inclusive education classroom, yet find every "excuse" to pick apart our educators lessons, classroom management, or teaching strategies. Yes they may have gone to school for the administrative degree, go look at some of the inept administrators running school districts across the country. An administrative degree does not prove that you are capable of making correct decisions that provide the best environment for our students. This sorry excuse for an Athletic Director at Spencerport High School should be ashamed of himself. The taxpayers have spoken, give them their coach back. By the way those taxpayers pay the administrators ridiculous salaries that for the most part they do not truly deserve.

(By the way, all my planning has been completed and I am writing this during my planning period.)


SectionVAlum
Joined: Apr 3, 2012
Posts: 8
I am sorry that you have had negative experiences with administrators. I am fortunate to work in a building with excellent and supportive administrators who keep students at the forefront.

We shall again visit the idea of perspectives. According to you I am a disgrace, while according to my district, New York State, and other independent accolades I am quite the contrary. You are absolutely right in that we are a family, and it is a family's responsibility to hold all members accountable to the highest possible standards. I refuse to simply defend someone because that person is in the same profession as I am. All I have done is provided an alternative perspective. Dissent is one of the attributes this wonderful Country was founded on. At no point have I attacked anyone for formulating their own opinion. If dissent and accountability are wrong, then I do not want to be right.

Time to go give positive phone calls home!
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