johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1097
Location: Hen House
LImarty wrote:
WRESTLING TODAY pales in comparison to wrestling yesterday and the day before that.
Bam! The pot is stirred by Martin. The yearly "past v present" thread has begun.
Nov 30, 2016
LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
rooster,
The progressive softening of society- the future bans on contact sports- suggests passivity not strength. So, when trying to determine if a wrestler today has the same tools as wrestlers who have come before him....MORE to me suggests -not. Ive heard all the arguments how things are better now....lol. FACT is most "Wrestling Rooms" are not anything like the past. FACT is practices arent anything like the past. FACT is wrestling partners arent anything like the past. FACT is the wrestling disciplines set-up, take down, riding, have declined at the varsity level...and MOST importantly- the over all competition has really declined within NYS and elsewhere. Very hard to keep- find- and drive athletes today. Their attention span , their desire, their dedication, and their discipline has been replaced by.."nothing really matters" mentality- It is challenging to even be a Coach in this society. BTW- on Coaches- many do not have the background to develop programs . Many are transient- Many arent versed in all disciplines of wrestling and many are carefully maintained by their Administrations.
Drug use is at epidemic proportions in many HS s. This alone has hurt the athlete's ability to maintain a healthy structure. So, for the few who find their way past these social disorders... they- should be commended but, never compared.
So, why would I pick ANY kid wrestling today - over a wrestler from yesterday- last decade- or 40 yrs ago. ?????????
Here's one for the wrestling older Sec. V brethren ....138 lb match - Yianni D vs Frank DeAngelis......LMFAO !!!! Someone please call an ambulance.
.................................
Lastly, "......A LIGHT WILL ALWAYS SHINE BRIGHTEST IN A DARKENED ROOM "
............................
ps. A better match would be Yianni D vs Nick Piccininni
btw- Nickerson would shut down Piccininni- and most likely would come close to shutting him out. Nickerson had the ability to score more points on an offensive wrestler- the more you open up the more you fed into his arsenal. A very , very underrated wrestler like Huntington's Shawn Riley- found this out.
Nov 30, 2016
swank
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Posts: 64
@ LIMarty,
...........................RIGHT, because this terrible epidemic you speak of is world-wide and affecting wrestling development throughout Russia, the Middle East and everywhere else predominantly known for producing decades and decades of strong wrestlers....THAT must be the only reason Yianni was able to dominate the field in not only just NYS & USA ... but also the entire World for 2 straight years now.
I'm sure Frank Deangelis would have sent Yianni home in an ambulance ... RIGHT ........... "LMFAO" at you Marty.
Nov 30, 2016
matburn Site Admin Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 3458
Location: WNY
_________________ Go for the pin.
Dec 1, 2016
LATDROP
Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 81
Nickerson would win, I'm a big YD fan but I don't see him winning. NY is a shell of what it once was, just no where near as tough. Nickerson wins in Folk but YD is so dangerous in freestyle. Again not taking anything away from YD he's a monster on the mat.
Dec 1, 2016
Sonny
Joined: Dec 1, 2013
Posts: 25
Location: New York
LATDROP wrote:
Nickerson would win, I'm a big YD fan but I don't see him winning. NY is a shell of what it once was, just no where near as tough. Nickerson wins in Folk but YD is so dangerous in freestyle. Again not taking anything away from YD he's a monster on the mat.
Wrestling is more advanced today compared to a few years ago. Comparing 2 wrestlers from different time periods is tough. What's available to kids now i.e. Flo, YouTube makes it a lot easier to learn different styles and moves. If all this access was available to past wrestlers who knows how much better they would be. Today's results are alarming.
Out of 8 dual results listed this morning on armdrag. 7 had full box scores, 74 pins or forfeits out of 98 matches. That doesn't include double forfeits. Like it or not, wrestling is nothing like it used to be.
Dec 1, 2016
LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
matburn,
THANKS so much..... for the video. Brought me back for a little while..lol Frank was a "stud" and beat MANY good wrestlers.
.........................
Swank,
Nothing I said- discredits anything YD has done or will do.
.........................
.....PLEASE, to all - understand the Art of this Sport. SCHOOLING is so unimportant today. Kids go from Peewees to Varsity- without learning the DISCIPLINES of this Sport. ..Set-up is the ability to create a takedown . FUNK is the junk when you do not execute and finish the takedown. COUNTER is the arsenal stored in your box of tricks when you need it. FEEL is the ability to counter, attack, execute, and dismiss attacks. RIDING the most abandoned technique in this sport. The ability to wear your opponent out- to slow down the match and control the outcome ....Todays tilt - isnt new. It was the thing you did before the fall...lol.
The facts are self evident- today , your Wasp kills the unequipped Bee....and continues this onslaught to the next level killing all the bees along the way- yet, he never met a Killer Bee. IMO- the Killer Bees are no longer in NYS. Through the years I saw the swarms- and- I have seen the decline- IMO- the sociological/ environmental changes not only made the honey bee disappear - it has made the Killer Bee extinct.
ps. The condition of Wrestling today in NYS- is comparative to pre- 1950s
Dec 2, 2016
BULL80
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 57
Although i respect your opinion, I respect Ben Askren, Tommy Rowlands and, Matt Storniolo opinion more and they disagree. They also say the level of wrestling stayed the same from 1995-2010.
Hear them discuss the level of highschool wrestling at Super32 this year ( 14:45-20:30) and they give credit to private clubs and technology for the improvement.
johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1097
Location: Hen House
BULL80 wrote:
Although i respect your opinion, I respect Ben Askren, Tommy Rowlands and, Matt Storniolo opinion more and they disagree. They also say the level of wrestling stayed the same from 1995-2010.
Hear them discuss the level of highschool wrestling at Super32 this year ( 14:45-20:30) and they give credit to private clubs and technology for the improvement.
wrestling is more advanced every year. the wrestlers now are way more technically advanced than the wrestlers of the past. i agree that its"softer" now and that kids are sacrificing basic fundamentals for success early on..but yanni has missed nothing, hes a damn two time world champ...did frank d have even the means to compete on a world stage? things r different now, yannis the best weve seen. frank d was obviously a total stud and would likely maul yanni in a street fight, but were talking scholastic wrestling...its Yanni by techfall all day. was a frank d a 5 time state champ? get real, wake up. yannis techniques r so advanced compared to any of these guys and his resume speaks for that...nuff said.
Dec 5, 2016
LATDROP
Joined: Dec 30, 2013
Posts: 81
Nickerson would throttle Pletcher and who lost to him? Both great talents and I know it's about styles match ups. NY continues to drop off unfortunately, our best can beat anyone but the depth just isn't there.
Dec 5, 2016
Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
Lol........a mile long thread about the best HS wrestlers ever in NYS, and not one mention of Jesse Janzen. You people live in a bubble.
Dec 5, 2016
Raider92
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 156
Age old debates of who is the best are always fun. Who is the best NFL QB of all time....Brady, Montana, Manning ect.....your never really wrong it's just opinion. Who is better Yanni or Nickerson? Who really cares. They are both amazing and should be cherished NY wrestlers. They are both All Time Greats.....who is the greatest....continue the debate. But none of these guys would kill each other......it would be a great match that we would all come to watch. Right now when I go see a tournament that Yanni is at, I just sit back and enjoy his brilliance on the mat, he is just so impressive. Can't wait to visit Cornell and see him in college as he goes after a NCCA title or multiple. Should be a good 4 year ride.....get on board and enjoy.
Dec 5, 2016
DavidDeirby
Joined: Dec 5, 2016
Posts: 1
You guys should check out RankWrestlers.com! Super cool algorithm that ranks everybody in the state based on type of win and quality of opponent. Gets opinion out of the picture. Crazy accurate!
Last edited by DavidDeirby on Dec 6, 2016; edited 1 time in total
Dec 6, 2016
LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
...CONTACT SPORTs in NYS
not even a question that the amount of High School athletes have declined by more than 40% since the mid '70s- not to mention that the DI Scholarships have dropped off by more than 60% since the '80s - not to mention that the 3 tier wrestling / football chain has been broken for nearly 25 yrs. Middle School (Freshmen Teams) / JV / Varsity- wrestling inclusive of wrestle-offs- and CUTs in Football. BTW. Name all the All-Pro athletes who have come from NYS.....lol....not too many in the past 20-25 + yrs.
Sorry, the bubble I live in suggests that the BEST in NYS have come and gone. The decline follows a trend - known as a Bell Curve. Peak seems to be between 1974- 1984...and the rise and fall extends from that.
Now, with that being said. NYS has had INDIVIDUALs who have come around in each decade- that raise the eyebrows of spectators. Jim Brown- averaged 27 yds per carry at Manhassett HS. Lou Banach didnt have a pt scored on him in the Olympics except, for a penalty pt. Carl Yazstremski. Julius Erving .....and others have came from ALL different times. So, when comparing athletes ....it is not necessarily the time frame though, it does have a lot to do with the quality of competitors and the numbers involved.
Having MORE quality individuals raises the level of talent around them. You can not argue this.
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