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Dec 16, 2016
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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I cant bare to watch this Sport anymore at the High School level. With all due respect to the kids who walk through those Wrestling Room doors on a daily basis- "props".
To anyone who believes Wrestling is better now....LMFAO !!!!
To all of you- that I have bantered with over the years- who I have been acquainted with on the web or in person. Thank you-
Long Island Marty- signing off .
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Dec 16, 2016
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shelgeland
Joined: Feb 2, 2007
Posts: 2
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LI,
Wrestling has become frustrating. From every single move becoming "potentially dangerous", to rampant stalling, to 15 weight classes, to unethical coaching or behavior, to watering down championship competition, the list is growing yearly. Schools are dropping programs, and those in power are stripping the sport of its character. But now is not the time to "sign off." Double down. Be MORE vocal. Get MORE involved. Be louder. Fight the good fight. Wrestling is worth it.
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Dec 16, 2016
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Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1182
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All sports are becoming frustrating.
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Dec 16, 2016
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WrestlerofthePast
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 1030
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First the Wombat, now you're signing off?!?!?! We're in trouble now.
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Dec 16, 2016
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takedown20
Joined: Feb 10, 2016
Posts: 55
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WrestlerofthePast wrote:First the Wombat, now you're signing off?!?!?! We're in trouble now.
Even The Bat is old news in the world of wrestling. He would have everyone retreating to safe spaces.
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Dec 16, 2016
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provocateur
Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1143
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Elite wrestling is certainly better now. It must be torture for Marty to see kids like Yianni and Vito cement their places among New York's all time best. Loving it here!
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Dec 18, 2016
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techbandit
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 779
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heck yea, these kids are way better than we were. way more technically advanced. the watering down allows for more prticipation which fuels the sport in general. if only the toughest play, we discourage and turn away many others...kids who might get good, or at least take away knowledge and positive lessons learned, which kids can use throughout their lives off the mat. lets not forget why we love the sport of RASLIN'
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Dec 18, 2016
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melvin
Joined: Feb 1, 2016
Posts: 3
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I cant even watch HS wrestling anymore because of the in consist calls on stalling, it changes between duals and sectionals then states,many coaches play on that , I was a biggest fan of wrestling and have not been to a match in the past five years because of the officiating. Everyone wants to know why the sport doesn't grow.take a survey of why people don't go to matches after their kids graduate,I would bet its the officiating?
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Dec 18, 2016
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WrestlerofthePast
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 1030
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And all this time I thought it was because of the decline in loose meat sandwiches offered at concession stands.......
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Dec 19, 2016
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vanwilder141
Joined: Oct 12, 2005
Posts: 274
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In the age of specialization you can no longer be a three month out of the year wrestler and be one of the elites. I'm sure there are a few outliers that someone could point out but days are gone. The level of technique and mat savvy shown by elite high school wrestlers today as compared to those of the past are not even comparable.
As for Marty, I love his passion but he's missing the technique and skill set of today's elite wrestlers. Not everything they are doing can be attributed to "funk". The head and hands defense, down blocks to reattacks as well as the angles they are able to create are truly a pleasure to watch. As they are never happened at this level before. This is not to say if the "LIMARTY" legends wrestled today they wouldn't be success they would just need to catch up with the skill set.
_________________
Write that down |
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Dec 20, 2016
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather III (imo-the worst of the epic). "When I think I am out, they drag me back in"
To those who really do not go back far enough.
I saw Lou Giani wrestle- most times he would meet my brother in the finals of an AAU Tournaments. My brother was 2nd on Long Island prior to any State Tourney. My brother was one the biggest 125 lbers I have ever seen. Back then he had two losses- to a guy from Nassau co. who would throw in legs and ride out periods. The RULEs and STYLEs were different in the 60s.
In the 70s- it was about EVERY TECHNICAL position available. RIDING and working for a fall was the norm- understanding the concept of grinding your opp down. It was not a great era for beauty. ....BUT, there were more doing it and they were SCHOOLED in every facet of Wrestling. From neutral / set-up/ takedown/ and on the mat. Along with doing the things that MOST wrestlers do not do today. EX. Jeff Thomas/ Huntington- did 1000 push-ups a day- 500 pull ups every day Most elite wrestlers wrestled ALL YEAR. Some even went into College off-season Tournies. So, not much has changed in 40s years- EXCEPT, for the amount doing it today-and- the sociological changes. THE KIDs WERE TOUGHER BACK THEN...PERIOD !!!!!!!
Into the 80s, the numbers started to fall off yet, the talent was still strong throughout NYS. IMO- Kids who were 3rds and 4ths back then - would be considered ALL WORLD today.
The 90s/ 00s- the noticeable decline in talent was starting to show- the BEST distinguished themselves because of a loss in numbers and the social /econ climate was starting to show it's evil head around the state. The Sections that had numbers rose to the Top - the Sections that had QUALITY Peewee programs were distinguishing themselves- TEAM X/ BLUEWAVE/ Section IV- had a group of kids that went to PA every weekend. So, it showed two and four years later at the HS. level. BUT, the pool was also, showing that 8th/9th graders were winning at the HS level. THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER OCCURRED PRIOR.
Today, you have wrestlers in the HS wrestling room who have relatively NO EXPERIENCE at any level- and then those who seem to do all the winning with just peewee experience- WHY ??? would anyone think this new technical generation is BETTER (lol) in any dimension ????? Wrestling is wrestling....and today it is more acceptable to watch- because of the Rules/ Style- NOT, BECAUSE IT IS BETTER.
There is so much more reason not to believe it is BETTER......less numbers, less upper classmen on teams, less back-ups, no wrestle-offs, practices are shorter and easier, - What bares this out- Go look at the BOX SCOREs. Tell me when you see more than 2-3 individual matches separated by 1 pt.- OT matches- bloody noses-lol. You can have a 6 Team dual- without ONE BLOODY NOSE...Com'on, I have watched some of NYSs best HS wrestlers in the past 20 yrs not ever crack a DI line-up or have any success at the next level.
WE can disagree- and- THE BEST - can come at any time BUT, I think guys like DeAngelis, McCoy, Mariano ,Paddocks, Dierna, Bousakis, Prescott, Payne, Thomas, Iacovelli, Jantzen, Showalter, Nickerson and 100s others would feast on this group. .... For sure- you would need alot of COTTON BALLs.
and lastly, your idea of TECHNICAL....is funny. I know that MOST wrestlers - including, a 10th grade quitter like myself were more prepared than many of these kids on the mat today. I started wrestling at the age of 6- So, back in 1963- there were MANY kids on the mat- learning from the BEST .
..........................
PS. I suggest you guys go watch some video- Gable/ Monday in their 40s- working out with the Olympic Teams- and- how none of the wrestlers could get to their legs. LOL !!
Last edited by LImarty on Dec 20, 2016; edited 5 times in total
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Dec 20, 2016
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takedown20
Joined: Feb 10, 2016
Posts: 55
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LImarty wrote:I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather III (imo-the worst of the epic). "When I am out, they drag me back in"
To those who really do not go back far enough.
I saw Lou Giani wrestle- most times he would meet my brother in the finals of an AAU Tournaments. My brother was 2nd on Long Island prior to any State Tourney. My brother was one the biggest 125 lbers I have ever seen. Back then he had two losses- to a guy from Nassau co. who would throw in legs and ride out periods. The RULEs and STYLEs were different in the 60s.
In the 70s- it was about EVERY TECHNICAL position available. RIDING and working for a fall was the norm- understanding the concept of grinding your opp down. It was not a great era for beauty. ....BUT, there were more doing it and they were SCHOOLED in every facet of Wrestling. From neutral / set-up/ takedown/ and on the mat. Along with doing the things that MOST wrestlers do not do today. EX. Jeff Thomas/ Huntington- did 1000 push-ups a day- 500 pull ups every day Most elite wrestlers wrestled ALL YEAR. Some even went into College off-season Tournies. So, not much has changed in 40s years- EXCEPT, for the amount doing it today-and- the sociological changes. THE KIDs WERE TOUGHER BACK THEN...PERIOD !!!!!!!
Into the 80s, the numbers started to fall yet, the talent was strong throughout NYS. IMO- Kids who were 3rds and 4ths back then - would be considered ALL WORLD today.
The 90s/ 00s- the noticeable decline in talent was starting to show- the BEST distinguished themselves because of a loss in numbers and the social /econ climate was starting to show it's evil head around the state. The Sections that had numbers rose to the Top - the Sections that had QUALITY Peewee programs were distinguishing themselves- TEAM X/ BLUEWAVE/ Section IV- had a group of kids that went to PA every weekend. So, it showed two and four years later at the HS. level. BUT, the pool was also, showing that 8th/9th graders were winning at the HS level. THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER OCCURRED PRIOR.
Today, you have wrestlers in the HS wrestling room who have relatively NO EXPERIENCE at any level- those who seem to do all the winning- WHY ??? would anyone think this new technical generation (lol) is BETTER in any dimension ????? Wrestling is wrestling....and today it is more acceptable to watch- because of the Rules/ Style- NOT, BECAUSE IT IS BETTER.
There so much more reason not to believe it is BETTER......less numbers, less upper classmen on teams, less back-ups, no wrestle-offs, practices are shorter and easier, - What bares this out- Go look at the BOX SCOREs. Tell me when you see more than 2-3 individual matches separated by 1 pt.- OT matches- bloody noses-lol. You can have a 6 Team dual- without ONE BLOODY NOSE...Com'on, I have watched some of NYSs best HS wrestlers in the past 20 yrs not ever crack a DI line-up or have any success at the next level.
WE can disagree- and- THE BEST - can come at any time BUT, I think guys like DeAngelis, McCoy, Mariano ,Paddocks, Dierna, Bousakis, Prescott, Payne, Thomas, Iacovelli, Jantzen, Showalter, Nickerson and 100s others would feast on this group. .... For sure- you would need alot of COTTON BALLs.
and lastly, your idea of TECHNICAL....is funny. I know that MOST wrestlers - including, a 10th grade quitter like myself were more prepared than many of these kids on the mat today. I started wrestling at the age of 6- So, back in 1963- there were MANY kids on the mat- learning from the BEST .
..........................
PS. I suggest you guys go watch some video- Gable/ Monday in their 40s- working out with the Olympic Teams- and- how none of the wrestlers could get to their legs. LOL !!
You are a delirious old man
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Dec 20, 2016
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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With your whopping 40 posts...LMAO !!!
Yianni gets torched by Nickerson (125 an under)
Nickerson gets handled by Bury (112 an under)
Jeff Thomas beats 99 % of any NYS wrestlers (105 and under)
.....but, then you would have to understand the difference between Lions and Domestic Cats.
Last edited by LImarty on Dec 20, 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Dec 20, 2016
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WrestlerofthePast
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 1030
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LI,
I'm sold. I think you're right. I do think practices are shorter and easier. I do think in general kids do not want to work as hard as they used to. I think coaches could get away with A LOT (in regards to discipline, intense practices, Sunday practices, etc.) compared to what coaches can do now due to our litigious society.
However, I do think there are exceptions to the rule, with Yianni being one of them. I absolutely do believe he could hang with the gentlemen you referred to in your previous post.
Times are changing.....style of wrestling has changed....more finesse and funk oppose to the hard nosed, 6 minutes, balls to the wall, attack, attack, wrestling.
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Dec 20, 2016
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Wrestler,
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT !!!!
Administrations have strangled/harnessed HS Coaches in general- It is impractical to administer the techniques of coaching when someone is ready to fire you for pushing a kid- working a kid - finding out what he is made of . Btw- many coaches are transient. They come -go. Many are not very good. Many lacked their own skills as wrestlers. Many have egos that need to be stroked. Many arent 100% in.
Ive watched Yianni and he displays ALL the traits of many who came before him- He is well advanced over his peers. NOT EVEN A QUESTION. I do have questions about his future at the next level- specifically, his growth-riding. Im not sure he will dominate his competition but, that's normal.
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