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johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1090
Location: Hen House
Firemanj,
One of the best posts I've ever read on this forum. It adds the insight that many of us miss. Thank you. Ignore Marsha's spew. He's always right, and the rest are a bunch of idiots. I know, because he told us so..... a freakin million times over. Must be FACT......


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 882
LOL.

On Long Island

Ryan Maurer 2X NYS Champ didnt wrestle his senior year in HS..yet,.was ranked #1 in the Nation. He lost to Jon Masa 0- NYS Champ. SR National Champ . Maurer lost to Masa out of season 12-6. Masa as a senior lost to Section IVs Josh Ruff at 130 lbs in the NYS semis . Masa went on to win the SR Nationals and become a 3X NCAA AA. Maurer took off a season and then became a JUCO National Champ- offered a full scholarship to NC St.....and none of these wrestlers were at Jesse Jantzen's level in HS.

EVOLUTION. ??????? Not EVERYTHING gets better with time. Another terrible exhausted falsity .

there isnt a kid in NYS and not too many around the Country TODAY, TOMORROW and/or NEXT WEEK...that could hang/ compete with the above mentioned wrestlers.


firemenj
Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 156
Location: NY
Guess I'm just posting for the benefits of others Marty. You've completed missed the point of my post, and I can barely follow yours. Have a nice day


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 882
firemanj,

I read your post and it is COMPLETE BUNK !!!! I didnt miss anything.

Did you ever see Jack Cuvo wrestle ??? Nate or Jimmy Carr ??? ............they would torch these kids. PERIOD. !! The STYLE TODAY is in neutral - do you think John Smith would fail against todays wrestler ??? Cuvo, the Carrs, Smith owned the neutral position.

Your Larry Czonka analogy only points to the game becoming PASS FIRST and run later... Are you cutting Drew Pearson, Charlie Taylor, Lynn Swann, Jerry Rice etc etc ????

The OLD SCHOOL wrestler would thrive today- only having to learn NEUTRAL which he was proficient in anyway- and tilt instead of pin...LOL...much easier... If, the kids today had to wrestle 30 yrs ago - imo they wouldnt make it on a JV Team- unless, they learned how to ride and counter.

BTW- when a kid goes to a clinic or a camp today....WHO'S TEACHING THEM ???? When did Cornell's Koll wrestle ?? Ohio State's Tom Ryan ??? Okie St's John Smith ??? Iowa's Brands ??...AND...Who taught them.??? So, this new improved STYLE is being taught by "OLD SCHOOL" wrestlers ???? hmmmmm!!!! complete BUNK !!! Stay in the firehouse and study. ANSWER- Koll was the son of a gifted Coach- the Brands/Ryan were drilled by a guy named Gable... Barry Davis , Lou Rosselli when did they wrestle ?? Who taught them ??....many of this Sport's best HS Coaches were born in the 40s, and 50s....and their disciples continue the production line today...the state of PA has been proving this for over 40 yrs. Year to year...every year.

In regards to EVOLUTION. A stud is a stud . PERIOD. Doesnt matter when he wrestled or where, BUT, there is more proof that a stud from the past had to go through many more studs than the kid has to- today. So, it does matter "who"....and- who- better have a significant resume.

Nah, Wilt Chamberlain , Karrem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Walton, Juluis Irving, Jerry West, Clyde Drexler, Hakeem Oljawon, etc. etc...couldnt get it done today- because of EVOLUTION !!! lmfao !!!! A Basketball hoop is 10' high- a football field is 100 yds long- a 95 mph fast ball is the same today as it was yesterday. Just do not dilute yourself without understanding the flaws in your position.
................................

Yes, Mike Trout and Brice Harper might be near the Top of the best all time white baseball players to ever play the game. Yes, Baseball has better talent now than it ever did before since the addition of the Latin ball player. Yes, Pro- Football has more bigger (fatter) players- arguably many more with sub 4.5 -40s than 20 yrs ago BUT, less talented in many positions- less schooled-

An easy way of comparing present to past in Wrestling- take the Coach - what weight he wrestled and compare him to his present wrestler at the same weight. Next case.


WrestlerofthePast
Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 975
The most amusing part of this discussion.....these are impossible scenarios to ever know the truth of who would win or dominate. Regardless, I love the banter!


provocateur
Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1106
The funniest thing is watching those old vids. These "elite" high schoolers look like pee-wees in technique.

Anything before Jeff Prescott is absolutely hard to watch.

Even matches that I thought were incredible at the War Memorial pale in comparison when I see them today.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 882
provocasalesmen,

It is called CAMERA SPEED. ..LOL. Super 8 millimeter .

mid -70s to the mid 80s. Is NYS's BEST....individuals from the 60's to OO's. PERIOD !!!

'68 GRADUATE Carl Adams- was called by Sports Illustrated- "Middle Weight of the Decade"....lol.

Guess, Mohammed Ali was just another fighter....lol
..........................

btw. UNLESS YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT A NEW MOVE OR SERIES OF MOVES WHICH WERE DEVELOPED SINCE THE 50s. YOU ARE NOT EVEN FOCUSED ENOUGH TO ENGAGE IN AN ARGUMENT . A HALF NELSON is a half nelson. A SINGLE LEG is a single leg...and so on.


Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1079
Older is not always better, this sport and the technique has evolved.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 882
.............yet, the same MOVEs, TECHNIQUEs, PRINCIPLES, remain pretty much the same.

The EVOLUTION is in the style and rules

New is not always NEW or BETTER... it can be the same as it always was. One square- one big circle- one little circle and two people working it out.



takedown20
Joined: Feb 10, 2016
Posts: 54
LImarty wrote:
provocasalesmen,

It is called CAMERA SPEED. ..LOL. Super 8 millimeter .

mid -70s to the mid 80s. Is NYS's BEST....individuals from the 60's to OO's. PERIOD !!!

'68 GRADUATE Carl Adams- was called by Sports Illustrated- "Middle Weight of the Decade"....lol.

Guess, Mohammed Ali was just another fighter....lol
..........................

btw. UNLESS YOU CAN TELL ME ABOUT A NEW MOVE OR SERIES OF MOVES WHICH WERE DEVELOPED SINCE THE 50s. YOU ARE NOT EVEN FOCUSED ENOUGH TO ENGAGE IN AN ARGUMENT . A HALF NELSON is a half nelson. A SINGLE LEG is a single leg...and so on.


You're right, scrambled legs was HUGE in the 70's. You're so stupid and for some reason you're stupidity is pissing me off. Why do I care what this delirious old man has to say?
'


firemenj
Joined: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 156
Location: NY
So the argument strategy is to list a whole bunch of names. Sweet. And blame cameras.

I never meant to imply that all athletes of old are worthless, as you say I did. You originally responded to my first post with a short, reasonable response. Then changed it to incoherent rambling. As a reasonable person could deduce from my post, I was pointing at how sports evolve and change, and they change based to get an advantage. The times and training are different.

But I think the biggest point you're missing for your argument, the be all end all fact, is the wrestling mats. Today's wrestling mats are clearly too soft. One person can lift and carry those mats they are so light, and in so many sections, they look terrible too... BUT YOU SEE the old mats, they were heavier and harder... 12 people were needed to lift em... you would get bounced on that mat and it would toughen you lol. Yianni is just too used to rolling on a pillow of a mat but DEANGELIS, his body was hardened steel... Frank used the old heavy mats as a LETHAL WEAPON.. .LMAO. Put Yianni on the old mat and make him do one dropstep and BAM. Ambulance. And we still want to compare???? The JV boys from 1971 wouldl augh at the light mats of today.

I'm sorry Marty, you're right


omgomgomgomg
Joined: Dec 7, 2006
Posts: 73
firemenj wrote:
So the argument strategy is to list a whole bunch of names. Sweet. And blame cameras.

I never meant to imply that all athletes of old are worthless, as you say I did. You originally responded to my first post with a short, reasonable response. Then changed it to incoherent rambling. As a reasonable person could deduce from my post, I was pointing at how sports evolve and change, and they change based to get an advantage. The times and training are different.

But I think the biggest point you're missing for your argument, the be all end all fact, is the wrestling mats. Today's wrestling mats are clearly too soft. One person can lift and carry those mats they are so light, and in so many sections, they look terrible too... BUT YOU SEE the old mats, they were heavier and harder... 12 people were needed to lift em... you would get bounced on that mat and it would toughen you lol. Yianni is just too used to rolling on a pillow of a mat but DEANGELIS, his body was hardened steel... Frank used the old heavy mats as a LETHAL WEAPON.. .LMAO. Put Yianni on the old mat and make him do one dropstep and BAM. Ambulance. And we still want to compare???? The JV boys from 1971 wouldl augh at the light mats of today.

I'm sorry Marty, you're right


You forgot all the random spacing between one sentence paragraphs.


johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1090
Location: Hen House
Lol firemenj, now you've done it! Open that can worms....His next post will ramble on with quotes and FACTS on the weight and density of mats from each decade, and how it has led to the decline in talent within the sport!!


provocateur
Joined: Dec 21, 2006
Posts: 1106
Now we're talking mid-70s to mid 80s? You sure move the goalposts. Prescott graduated in what? 87? What about Jantzen, Nickerson, Mariano, Bouzakis, Roselli, etc?

You have no idea what you're talking about. The technique has definitely changed. The only takedown defense that I saw in the 80s was Rick Brzozinski in his state final. Now these kids do it like college wrestlers. If you give those old timers the same technique, training, coaching, competition and nutrition then they are the equals and often betters of the kids today. But they didn't have it and it shows.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 882
Goodness,

You all cant evaluate CYCLEs. Is the competition pool equal to the pool...that Jantzen, Nickerson, Dake had.??? We dont have to go back 40 yrs ago or 30 yrs ago- when the pool was filled with sharks. Just go back 10- 15 yrs ago. The QUALITY of wrestlers back then are much more SUPERIOR then the current upper class peewee wrestler- the current Varsity wrestler on most mats today would not make most Teams- 10-15 yrs ago. Keep on fooling yourself.

ps. from 1974 thru 1984 in NYS......there were more than DOUBLE the amount of wrestlers in NYS- more than DOUBLE. This alone determines the QUALITY of wrestling. There was a freshmen team, a JV, and a Varsity. ALL, with wrestle-offs in most large Sections.
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