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We need numbers


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
I am working on it but initially I have this

http://mwolverine.com/Top_Wrestling_States.html


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
before you get crazy on this stuff.....

DI AAs is my primary focus. DII/ DIII schools is not.

5th and 6th year AAs - IMO - is a lot different than Frosh/ RS Frosh DI AAs. Go count the amount of AAs from PA and Ohio on a yearly basis.

..........................

You would have to count each year- from the NCAA Tournament profile. You will see the decline.....thank goodness for the Section IV bump early 2000s...or it would be on life support

Last edited by LImarty on Mar 21, 2017; edited 1 time in total


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
For 50 years we have an average of 4AA at NCAA 's obviously we have had good years and bad. Until I get more info I cannot say one way or the other but it seems by math Marty is all washed up as usual because we have had a few more AA's and not less then the three we had this year since 2012 when I did my own exhaustive search weight class by weight class. Unless in the early years we had none for a long time Marty is wrong again. We will see, but he will not do research, just wants to sit in the corner repeating his mindless drivel without a solution.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
You set the standard rock-star, D1 AA's, from NYS, or do I have to copy and paste your words. No definition of upstate or down state NYS.


LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
No, NYS can average 5-12 AAs on most given years. ALL of you are losing focus.

Jon Masa NEVER won a NYS Tile yet, won the HS Va Beach Nationals and went on to be a 3X NCAA AA. How many NYS wrestlers have done this ????

OTHERS, did the same thing for decades. Mike Piccozzi never won a NYS Title yet, was ranked #6 at Arizona Sr- he also , beat 3X NCAA Champ Barry Davis while both in College. Dominic Macchia in NYS beat both Banach Bros. Banach NCAA Champs- Olympian

Both Piccozzi and Mike Guistizia both were DI AAs in the same weight ..both from the Huntington area

on and on.

I can tell you just by history- that 11 or 12 of this year's NYS Champ will not ever become DI AAs.....for various reasons and history has pointed to this. NYS wrestling has faltered....sorry, to be the messenger.

Starts with numbers- peewee programs and Coaches at all levels that can raise - the level.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
Just on this thread you said rankings didn't mean anything. NYS wrestlers achieving AA status was the standard now you are moving the bar. Once again state your argument, follow it with researchable facts and we can have a discussion. To do otherwise would relegate all other posters equivalent to the voices in your head. Let us stick to your initial argument, "weak showing of NYS wrestlers in NCAA" because of the pussification of our programs....


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
"YES- YES- YES .......I am astounded that WRESTLING NON-RESULTs get tied into EDUCATION. This is just a bail-out/ excuse when your kid doesnt make it to a College wrestling mat. How many Harvard graduates are still looking for a job.???"




There's a difference between "looking for a job" and holding our for certain positions that pay 6 figures. They can all get good jobs tomorrow if they want. This notion that Ivy kids are waiting tables because they can't het hired anywhere is nonsense. They take jobs like that because it gives them the flexibility to keep pursuing the positions they really want.........or they've already been promised something when it opens up.


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
"Name the last Nassau Co. DI NCAA Finalist and in what year."



Tom Ryan (Wantagh), 1991. Lost in the finals to 4X National Champion Pat Smith, 7-6.

****However, Jon Masa (LB) placed 3rd in 2005, but his only loss was to National Champ Zach Esposito. So basically, he was on the wrong side of the bracket.

Neither Ryan or Masa ever won a NYS Championship.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
By the way unofficial as I do not have access to all high school records here is what I have compiled from my admittedly weak knowledge of wrestling (current wrestling I am aware of but older ones I am not aware of all names). I however will admit my ignorance at the onset:

2017-3AA
2016-2
2015-2
2014-3
2013-1
2012-6
2011-3
2010-3
2009-2
2008-2
2007-5
2006-4
2005-0? Admittedly names are less familiar here which is why I am looking at more reliable sources then my memory while looking at finalists (which is way more then the resident genius has done). Numbers are numbers and for this 12 year span we averaged a little less then 3AA's per year. This period covers he Patrovich/Gillespie/Nickerson years the great one espouses. Remember when he posts part of what he says seems true, and by conjecture you want to grant him some reasonable point of fact, however he picks and chooses his facts to fit his argument. So how far back to we have to go to see the pussification of America? Before title 9? To the last baby boom which may be explained by how many D1 programs NYS had relative to now? Let's put to rest this issue please because I am tired of explaining things to you, and the next few years I project to be a bit stronger for NY by these measures. That last statement Marty is conjecture not a fact. If you wish to dispute facts I will talk all day, otherwise sit down and shut up.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
Thought I should put names to I since I saw two mistakes on my own but math works out same.
2006 - 4
125 Nickerson 2nd, 149 Gillespie 7th, 174 Patrovich 4th, 197 Weidman
2007 - 5
125 Nickerson 3rd, 149 O'Connor 5th, 149 Gillespie 1st, 165 Patrovich 6th, 197 weidman 3rd
2008 - 3
149 O'Connor 6th, 157 Gillespie 5th, *174 Alton Lucas (missed him) 8th
2009 - 2
125 Troy Nickerson 1st, 157 Gillespie 4th
2010 - 3
125 Nickerson 4th, 141 Dake 1st, 157 O'Connor 1st
2011 - 3
133 Ruggerello 7th, 149 Dake 1st, 165 Paul Gillespie 8th
2012 - 5
125 Bonanno 8th, 133 Keith 8th, 141 Nevinger 7th, 157 Dake 1st, 285 Gwiazdowski
2013 - 1
165 Dake
2014 - 3
141 Dutton 7th, 157 Realbuto 6th, 285 Gwiazdowski 1st
2015 - 2
157 Realbuto 2nd, 285 Gwiazdowski 1st
2016 - 2
157 Palacio 4th, Gwiazdowski 2nd
2017 - 3

If I made a mistake now you can at least see where


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
Albert, while you are still trying to find a ridiculous answer to the facts laid out before you here is something blowing up one of your other dull points. You often state that "in your day" (which again could be any period you wish to point to because you never state facts just anecdotes) guys who didn't win state championships were still D1 AA's, and that somehow shows depth. Well I have thought about that point and in speaking to folks who have AA 'd in wrestling and other sports I began seeing a commonality. It seems people around my age (52) went to college and played a D1 sport with little or no real talent at their sport. College programs were developing athletes into all Americans then. Younger guys were more specialized (guys around or under 30) went to college with a lot more specialized talent. Colleges still developed talent but they had kids who were privately trained and knew how to do their sport very well. Now kids in HS are specializing to be one sport athletes and they are better (not my opinion but all coaches I speak to from all sports recognize this) then their predecessors. Here is proof that the world has changed and you forgot to wake up from a 20 year nap. Top 100 recruits are responsible for 60 of the 80 AA spots in wrestling this year alone. I may disagree with specialization as a father but the proof is there, kids who are top 100 recruits (tough to do, and rarely done by a kid who isn't a multiple state champ) own 3/4 of the AA spots at this years NCAA.

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/18008


Raider92
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 156
Here is hoping that facts and well thought out responses push LIMARTY out of our forum for good. We know he is not afraid of quitting as he readily admits he quit wrestling; now please continue your quitting ways and find another forum to haunt.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
Oddly enough I don't want anyone to stop talking. Dialogue is always the beginning of a solution. I ask more stupid questions then anyone because I want to understand things better. What I am tired of is his stating of fact things which are not, and he asks others to "look it up" as if he did. He has an opinion that's all, and if he spent anytime looking for a solution we would all be better off. I meant what I said in an earlier post that he and people like him could be a wealth of knowledge if he would just drop the agenda, and be part of the solution.


bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
It has been 4 hours since your last bulemic response. I do not want you to sit with your tail between your legs under the kitchen table shaking. Just man up (like you keep telling the kids - stop being a pussy), type a nice post saying you are wrong and we can move on. Don't wait a few months or weeks and pretend you didn't read this, then start posting the same silly diatribe again, c'mon now that's what a real man would do.


Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
In fairness to Marty, he's been whining about this for AT LEAST 10 years. So comparing this era to the one he was whining about 10 years ago only illustrates no growth.

He's referring to the success NY had during the 70's and 80's. Now I have no idea what NY's national numbers we're back then, but that's what he's getting at.
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