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Feb 6, 2018
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Wrestle10
Joined: Jan 4, 2008
Posts: 233
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no those extra kids would have to be long island kids so they would all place lol
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Feb 6, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Unfortunately, there are wrestlers from ALL PARTs of the State...who have been hosed for decades.
WOW. What a surprise. Minisink/ Wantagh were the two left standing. The COST has always been an issue in NYS.
jmo. Better to spend it on the NYS- "Section" Tourney...lol. Maybe, it is overtime to make it a REAL State Tourney.
ONE DIVISION - multiple entries- one more round of wrestling. CLEANS UP- point/win for wildcards.- area..etc. etc....as to representation. Then again , if you can tell me 100% ly- that some kid from Section whatever is always better than the 3rd place finisher from Section XI/ Section V....reward STRENGTH. period.
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Feb 6, 2018
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Heisenberg
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 157
Location: WNY |
One division state tournament, 32 man bracket
Sections 8, 11 - 4 reps
Sections 1,2,3,4,5,6,9- 3 reps
One section each year loses a rep based on power points
Sections 7,10, Catholic, PSAL- 1 rep
32 wrestlers per bracket
Would it fly ?
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" Who are you talking to right now ? .... Who is it you think you see ? " |
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Feb 6, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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I don't agree with that and I'm from LI. Historically section XI has been strong but the entrants have to be held to recent results or it is an unfair advantage and would do more to weaken Suffolk county then to help it. I do agree with one tournament though. A simple formula like the one we have now taking into account that sections like V, IV, VIII, and XI normally have more difficult paths to the state tournament versus say section X would suffice.
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Feb 6, 2018
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Wrestle10
Joined: Jan 4, 2008
Posts: 233
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One tournament would be awesome. Keep it the same format each section gets 2 reps and give 8 wildcards. The best kids will earn the points and qualify.
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Feb 6, 2018
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Heisenberg
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 157
Location: WNY |
Yeh, Just a rough template.
I wouldnt think it would be outrageous to give 8 and 11 four spots if you gave the other sections 3, just based on population alone.
Would definitely need tweaking. I dont know if the #4 wrestler in Suffolk county could win states. Did it ever happen, Marty?
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" Who are you talking to right now ? .... Who is it you think you see ? " |
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Feb 6, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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Number three did it a few years ago TJ Fabian
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Feb 6, 2018
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Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
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There's never been a #4 wrestler from a weight class go to the states. As it stands, you can't have more than 2 wildcards from the same weight class.
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Feb 7, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Lou Giani was dead against Wildcards. WHY ??? Ran into him some years back- and asked Coach . "Why, would you be against expanding the Tourney with wildcards " ?? His response was simple and clear : " Instituting wildcards will only stop any chance of having multiple entries"...Understanding that the vote process as well as he knew it- that CHANGE is slow in New York State
The VOTE BIAS ...is what has constricted the NYS Section Tournament from actually being a State Tournament.
one example: Mike Bosco/ John Glenn HS. As a senior Mike being on a Top Team- traveled throughout NYS during the season. Bosco beat 3- future Section Champs who went to Albany this same year. Bosco lost in the Suffolk semi finals . I believe it was 2-1 in OT. Mike Bosco never went to Albany . My standards: wrestling in the toughest section in NYS, beating 3- Section Champions that same year----they go and you sit in the bleachers. Something , is not right with this formula.
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Feb 7, 2018
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choppy
Joined: May 3, 2016
Posts: 93
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Ewe double ewe
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Feb 7, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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LImarty wrote:Lou Giani was dead against Wildcards. WHY ??? Ran into him some years back- and asked Coach . "Why, would you be against expanding the Tourney with wildcards " ?? His response was simple and clear : " Instituting wildcards will only stop any chance of having multiple entries"...Understanding that the vote process as well as he knew it- that CHANGE is slow in New York State
The VOTE BIAS ...is what has constricted the NYS Section Tournament from actually being a State Tournament.
one example: Mike Bosco/ John Glenn HS. As a senior Mike being on a Top Team- traveled throughout NYS during the season. Bosco beat 3- future Section Champs who went to Albany this same year. Bosco lost in the Suffolk semi finals . I believe it was 2-1 in OT. Mike Bosco never went to Albany . My standards: wrestling in the toughest section in NYS, beating 3- Section Champions that same year----they go and you sit in the bleachers. Something , is not right with this formula.
Not sure how Mike Bosco is an example of "wild cards are bad". Mike was the 6 seed and lost in the second round to Lou Puca, he wrestled back to third but didn't have the points to join both Anthony Volpe and Lou Puca who went to the states that year. Anthony went on to win states that year and Mike did have a win over him in double OT at a league match (if I remember score was 3-2). Problem for Mike was previous year winning leagues getting seeded and losing to teammate Joe Giarmita in section XI tourney and taking fourth, not enough points for year to follow. My kid was in a similar position in 10th grade, he actually won a match that table and coaches messed up score on, match went to OT, and he lost in OT. Lost his mental, failed in wrestlebacks, didn't go to states despite the fact he beat 4 of the top 5 guys (couldn't beat Mark Tracy that year though). It sucks, he hurt, I actually hurt more (was numb for days), but next year he didn't leave anything on the table. It's those things that make this sport great and how it makes its participants better. I feel sorry for Mike, but I'm sure it made him a better man. I also fail to see how guaranteed spots would help unless we had 3, and I would argue the wildcard system works and guaranteeing spots for any section would be a mistake, there are years that we don't have two good kids at a weight in Suffolk county never mind 3, it should be on a year by year case and that's what the wild cards allow for, albeit they are not perfect. I doubt guaranteed spots would have helped Mike.
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Feb 7, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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FACT is Bosco beat 3 Section Champs. In a REAL State Tourney he would have qualified....In a Sectional State Tournament he was OMMITED .
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Feb 7, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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But that means nothing.... he beat Volpe in a league match and had some good wins, when he lost in quarterfinals to Puca he didn't have points to go to states, happens. That doesn't indict the entire system, just means you had a dog in the show. I'm glad you picked something from my time in wrestling, and not from some bygone time so I can see your bias. Look there are quality wrestlers all the time who fail to rise up at their moment. This Saturday my little one will probably have same situation doesn't indict the section XI tournament nor NYS tourney. It's my job to build him up and send him back out to do it again, next year. I remember watching Mike because I was everywhere at that time, he was a good wrestler, not a world beater in high school, never kept up with his college career to see if he continued his growth but I'm sure with all the time (7/8 years now) he would tell you what I do now about my sons loss in 10th grade.... stuff happens we move on. No need for this dramatic change in how things are done to fix something that's not broken
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Feb 7, 2018
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Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
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There should be full wrestle backs in the county tournament though.
You are only ripping off your own section regarding placement points if you don't operate that way.
Section 8 has gone to full wrestlebacks starting this year.
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Feb 7, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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Falcon I believe as of last year there are full wrestle backs (not for pigtails in) in section XI. At the time Mike Bosco was wrestling I believe it was "follow the leader" and the guy he lost to did go on.
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