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Is it ducking or just plain strategy?


Livinginthepast
Joined: Feb 17, 2016
Posts: 52
Just a thought: It was nice to see Anders and Lee wrestle at 120 last night. I've been at a number of events where great match-ups could have occurred, but did not happen due to coaching decisions. Some would call it strategy and some would call it ducking. I've noticed a lot of this happening over the past couple of seasons, but this year, it's happened at a few weight classes, with excellent wrestlers in those weight classes. I'm probably opening a can of worms, but I think some head coaches are having their wrestlers duck what would be great matches, to protect win/loss records. From my perspective, you don't get a whole lot better by moving up to get a quick pin, when the match has already been decided. And that has happened a number of times this year. It takes away from the sport and creates mismatches that don't need to happen. If the match is on the line: by all means do what you have to do to bump, but when match has been decided, let the great match happen.


chucknorriscoverband
Joined: Jan 15, 2014
Posts: 111
There are many factors why this happens. Granted as coaches as wrestlers and as fans we all want to see great matchup's, but sometimes especially in dual meet situations you have to do what's best for the team. Other than that sometimes you have to avoid big matchup's for sectional Seeding, , The state qualifiers and potentially the point system for the states. and in many situations it never benefits the better wrestler who has a step up on his opponent to wrestle him three or four times a season. You seek competition elsewhere. at the end of the day if they're not the same sectionals it will happen at the state qualifier and even states.


ringworm2000
Joined: Jan 5, 2017
Posts: 41
When a team can objectively see they are going to win a match and still don't put out the kids who provide the best match ups it is straight up ducking. Not by the kids, the kids want to wrestle, but by the coaches. Seeding points, state wild cards etc etc is BS'ing around that fact that you do not believe in your wrestler and your "protecting" him. The best way to protect him is to get him on the mat and feel the other kids. If you wait for state qualifier you have no data, no tape, no nothing to prepare or develop a strategy.

Everyone wants to talk about making wrestling better and how can we get the fans to come out. Have the best kids wrestle each other at dual meets. I use to look in the newspaper (remember them) to see who would be wrestling each other. I would see a really good match that was going to happen between two top kids and then I would go to the dual so I could watch and 99% of the time it happened. Nowadays it happens maybe 25% time, why would I bother going to a dual when all I am going to see is teams bumping around to get mismatches. Look at team results there are over 50% pins in most matches and very rarely do the good kids wrestle each other. Dual meets have become a joke!!!

Congrats to Brockport and Webster Thomas.....but be rest assured it happened because they thought it was the best way to win the meaningless duals they were in....and not to get the best match.


madsb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
Posts: 229
ringworm2000 wrote:
When a team can objectively see they are going to win a match and still don't put out the kids who provide the best match ups it is straight up ducking. Not by the kids, the kids want to wrestle, but by the coaches. Seeding points, state wild cards etc etc is BS'ing around that fact that you do not believe in your wrestler and your "protecting" him. The best way to protect him is to get him on the mat and feel the other kids. If you wait for state qualifier you have no data, no tape, no nothing to prepare or develop a strategy.

Everyone wants to talk about making wrestling better and how can we get the fans to come out. Have the best kids wrestle each other at dual meets. I use to look in the newspaper (remember them) to see who would be wrestling each other. I would see a really good match that was going to happen between two top kids and then I would go to the dual so I could watch and 99% of the time it happened. Nowadays it happens maybe 25% time, why would I bother going to a dual when all I am going to see is teams bumping around to get mismatches. Look at team results there are over 50% pins in most matches and very rarely do the good kids wrestle each other. Dual meets have become a joke!!!

Congrats to Brockport and Webster Thomas.....but be rest assured it happened because they thought it was the best way to win the meaningless duals they were in....and not to get the best match.


You would like to see an end to dual meets?


Mayo08
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 1578
Depends on your perspective and the specific situation.

You kinda never know what's going on with kids in the room unless you're in the room. Who's sick, who's a bit banged up and wrestling through some injury, etc etc.

As a fan, I agree that there's some ducking. As a coach, I'd agree, too. In my short career I've avoided certain match ups in duals and pursued others, with varying results. League matches, for instance, I sort of view as a "wanna win" scenario vs Dual meet tournaments where you can sorta pursue tougher matches that facilitate growth. But I think it's deeper than that because of all the factors involved, as well as the reality that a lot of kids are wrestling 45-50 matches a season... as a coach how many of those do you want to be against the same kid? Let alone the same kid he's going to see in sectional finals? It gets excessive, quickly.

Given our league duals/cross-over-type matches on the schedule, counties, sectionals, supers... that there is 4 realistic opportunities two studs could meet, especially in D1 where there are only 2 sectional classes vs D2 where there are 3. And that's not counting one of the other 5 tournaments teams wrestle in a season. Tough call.
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