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The Superior Tournament, and a larger issue at hand


ThrowEMaway711
Joined: Mar 19, 2018
Posts: 1
Honestly, I was at SWA tournament yesterday for 11 hours and I tried, but couldn't find anything positive to say about how the tournament was ran. From a late start and finish, to switching wrestlers around without parent or coaches approval (even with a 26+lbs difference!), a lack of a split session, NO NATIONAL ANTHEM, ect ect ect.. there wasn't a thing done right. But let's not get this thread side tracked into a SWA bashing thread. We could go on all day about the lack of respect and professionalism, (I literally did go on all day to other coaches and parents Sunday about it) and honestly, I'm sick of talking about it. But it speaks to a larger issue at hand...

..The youth wrestling money grab.

Private wrestling clubs like this speak a good game about being the pinnacle of section V, promoting and and enhancing the amazing wrestlers we pump out every year (Go Yanni). But the impression I got from SWA was as soon as we paid our money, our wrestlers weren't important. If quality matches were the priority, why was it a grade level bracket and not a age level? These kids have been wrestling age levels all year! Now they are going to put a kindergartner against a old 2nd grader? If they wanted quality matches why didn't they talk to the coaches to get an idea of experience before moving kids around? If they wanted mat time, why did we have a kid wait 10 hours just for 2 matches? The answers wasn't because they didn't have enough time, they had 1.5 when weigh ins started to do brackets. Unfortunately it seems that it was because they were worried about parents taking the wrestler and their money home. Better to have the kid find out a minute before his match (after waiting upwards of 5 -6 hours) that they were wrestling someone 3 years older and 15 lbs heavier than a half hour after registration when the parents could legitimately ask for their money back. They kept young kids there all day (and night) on a school night because they wanted to clean out their concession stand. If people are there all day (and night) long, they get hungry and eat what is available as opposed to people timing meals accordingly with a split session tournament. SWA didn't care people left halfway thru and gave up matches because they already had their money. They didn't care about the kid and parents who gutted it out all day (and night) just to find out the other wrestler went home hungry and tired.

I've never been to a tournament affiliated with a school that would be this terrible. Their coaches aren't paid salaries. They take the money they make of their tournaments and buy singlets, shoes, mat time for the kids. They actually invest it in the sport. They buy entry fees and gas money for parents too poor to buy it on their own, because these coaches know they have a stud of a wrestler and without it that kid wouldn't wrestle. So even though these school programs need the money more, they don't stoop to the level of blatant money grabbing, because they know other schools are in the exact same position. There is integrity in that bond. There is companionship in the understanding it is about the wrestlers, not about the money. Private wrestling clubs are out for themselves, they are not part of that bond. They are part of no league. Private wrestling clubs like this literally buy legitimacy when school programs work for it.

Shameful Wrestling Academy showcased with amazing accuracy how certain people (because not all private clubs in our area are like this...) are just out for the money. So to the point of my thread: How do we continue our proud section V tradition of world class wrestlers, without devolving into a sleazy money grab operation?


BULL80
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 34
ThrowEMaway711 wrote:
Honestly, I was at SWA tournament yesterday for 11 hours and I tried, but couldn't find anything positive to say about how the tournament was ran. From a late start and finish, to switching wrestlers around without parent or coaches approval (even with a 26+lbs difference!), a lack of a split session, NO NATIONAL ANTHEM, ect ect ect.. there wasn't a thing done right. But let's not get this thread side tracked into a SWA bashing thread. We could go on all day about the lack of respect and professionalism, (I literally did go on all day to other coaches and parents Sunday about it) and honestly, I'm sick of talking about it. But it speaks to a larger issue at hand...

..The youth wrestling money grab.

Private wrestling clubs like this speak a good game about being the pinnacle of section V, promoting and and enhancing the amazing wrestlers we pump out every year (Go Yanni). But the impression I got from SWA was as soon as we paid our money, our wrestlers weren't important. If quality matches were the priority, why was it a grade level bracket and not a age level? These kids have been wrestling age levels all year! Now they are going to put a kindergartner against a old 2nd grader? If they wanted quality matches why didn't they talk to the coaches to get an idea of experience before moving kids around? If they wanted mat time, why did we have a kid wait 10 hours just for 2 matches? The answers wasn't because they didn't have enough time, they had 1.5 when weigh ins started to do brackets. Unfortunately it seems that it was because they were worried about parents taking the wrestler and their money home. Better to have the kid find out a minute before his match (after waiting upwards of 5 -6 hours) that they were wrestling someone 3 years older and 15 lbs heavier than a half hour after registration when the parents could legitimately ask for their money back. They kept young kids there all day (and night) on a school night because they wanted to clean out their concession stand. If people are there all day (and night) long, they get hungry and eat what is available as opposed to people timing meals accordingly with a split session tournament. SWA didn't care people left halfway thru and gave up matches because they already had their money. They didn't care about the kid and parents who gutted it out all day (and night) just to find out the other wrestler went home hungry and tired.

I've never been to a tournament affiliated with a school that would be this terrible. Their coaches aren't paid salaries. They take the money they make of their tournaments and buy singlets, shoes, mat time for the kids. They actually invest it in the sport. They buy entry fees and gas money for parents too poor to buy it on their own, because these coaches know they have a stud of a wrestler and without it that kid wouldn't wrestle. So even though these school programs need the money more, they don't stoop to the level of blatant money grabbing, because they know other schools are in the exact same position. There is integrity in that bond. There is companionship in the understanding it is about the wrestlers, not about the money. Private wrestling clubs are out for themselves, they are not part of that bond. They are part of no league. Private wrestling clubs like this literally buy legitimacy when school programs work for it.

Shameful Wrestling Academy showcased with amazing accuracy how certain people (because not all private clubs in our area are like this...) are just out for the money. So to the point of my thread: How do we continue our proud section V tradition of world class wrestlers, without devolving into a sleazy money grab operation?




I am so tired of the club smashing that goes on, on these forums. The tournament wasn't perfect no tournament is, i have my complaints as well. I also realize the people who where running the tournament did the best they could with what they had. Superior is not a money grab, I don't even go to the club anymore but i can tell you everyone involved with superior since day 1 is trying to do whats best for the kids.

When my son first started wrestling 8 years ago there was nothing but the fingerlakes youth league tournaments in section V. No matter what any of you say G2 and Superior have raised the level of section V wrestling to another level. Everyone is spoiled we are lucky to even have an off season tournament that big in our area. If it weren't for Superior and G2 throwing tournaments you would be driving 2/3 hours for a tournament that is ran the same way with less competition. Some of you need to pull your head out and realize the opportunties that you have in section V other sections would kill for.


To those xxxx.... are you going to do the work to run a tournament? Do you have any idea how much work it is and how stressful it is? Are you going to negotiate with Brockport/SRC other venues that the cost could be from 5K to 20K just for a site? If you really want to help, Volunteer get involved.... and btw Superior is a non-profit organization so every penny they get they put back in to wrestling... between G2 and Superior combined there are 6+ opportunities for your kids to have great competition. Apperciate what you have before its gone, and people like Adam Burgos, Ed Shaffer, Gary Ferro, John Burgess, Scott Kropman and countless others... decide it's not worth the trouble and then we have nothing but small league tournaments again.


These clubs and coaches have done so much for my son and countless others it makes me sick to see people trash them, if you can do better then go show everyone and pull the attendance away from these other tournaments.



-Jason Schubert


lockedhands91
Joined: Feb 15, 2018
Posts: 4
Wrestling was consistent all day
really strong competition
Full mats for 11-12 and older
Went pretty smooth
Definitely a long day


Heartonthemat
Joined: Feb 5, 2018
Posts: 1
Was it a long day? Sure was, but we have been to tournaments when the sun was barely up and still there long after it had set. The tournament was ran pretty smoothly and the SWA crew was running around the entire time trying to make the complainers happy and make changes where they could. Since you are complaining about the age range I am assuming your kid was on the younger end of the group. Wrestling kids a little older and maybe more skilled will only make your kid better. In regards to the money aspect me personally I could care less what clubs do with the money I pay for a service/event for my kid to have the opportunity to wrestle and if that happens then I am happy. Please don't complain about the events these folks put on because at some point they may say enough is enough and then what, will you step up and put on tournaments?


Raider92
Joined: Nov 15, 2009
Posts: 135
My son wants to wrestle in the offseason and i had a chance to go to a tournament 15 minutes from home. He wrestled three tough matches, including one against a state rep. What more could i ask. I was not there the 11 hours some were, but would have been happy to stay for two or three more matches.

And he got to witness someone doing a genuine act of kindness. I will keep what it was private. But it was the nicest thing one young wrestler could do for another. Thank you. I look forward to him paying it forward someday.

Thanks SWA for hosting.


wrestlinggrandpa
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
Posts: 15
Raider92 wrote:
My son wants to wrestle in the offseason and i had a chance to go to a tournament 15 minutes from home. He wrestled three tough matches, including one against a state rep. What more could i ask. I was not there the 11 hours some were, but would have been happy to stay for two or three more matches.

And he got to witness someone doing a genuine act of kindness. I will keep what it was private. But it was the nicest thing one young wrestler could do for another. Thank you. I look forward to him paying it forward someday.

Thanks SWA for hosting.


Sounds like your son will not only have a mentor father in his corner, but one that fosters good sportsmanship as well. Thanks for sharing.


ROCky585
Joined: Feb 14, 2018
Posts: 1
I most definitely agree with the first guy on here. I was at this tournament as well (and many other tournaments run by the same people) and they are always horrible. The competition is AVERAGE at best. You see the same kids at every wrestling tournament in the area. Before you think Iím just another complaining parent I'll add that I coached a wrestling club for several years, and yes we did have tournaments every year. We got the same number of wrestlers as the SWA tournament and it only lasts 5-6 hours.

This tournament was absolutely NOT smooth! What was the point of the pre-registration if they donít start wrestling early? 10:00 am at the very latest. Should have been even earlier. We didnít start wrestling until around 10:30 and it was poorly ran. No national anthem? They were still calling for volunteers to do table help after 10:00 am. Everything about it was poorly planned as usual. No age class brackets and instead you went by grade levels? It just adds to the confusion and chaos. Not only that but K-2nd grade?? There literally was a four year old who wrestled an 8 year old. Double his age and experience. The bracket numbers on the trees were so tiny, parents and everyone else was down on the floor waiting to see when the bracket would be up because you canít see the numbers unless you are 20 ft away. Keep it simple, and make it 5-6 year old brackets, 7-8 year old brackets and so on. Worst part about it was no split session and all the young kids could have came and went in the morning and let the older kids in the afternoon. Also, put the tables in better spots so people canít crowd around the tables and stand in the way. Better yet, use a rope to enclose the mats!?!

If Superior wasn't a money grab, then why does it cost so much? Where does the money go exactly... Same goes for nyway. Just like G2 and everything else they are involved with. That money doesnít go back into a school club 100% and where the money goes is questionable to be honest. Most coaches are VOLUNTEER coaches. Why charge coaches at the door? Why make each coach pay $50 to do their volunteer job at nyway (states?) Absolutely about the money and not the wrestlers.

I can respect the people who are passionate about wrestling, but I have to address this stuff. The money grabbing organizations are toxic. They want to run wrestling like a monopoly game. They donít care about the leagues. Parents and coaches flock to those tournaments because nyway does a good job advertising the tournaments. They donít know what a good, well run tournament looks like.

Nyway makes it hard for parents, coaches, and wrestlers. Keep brackets on the same mat all day long! Donít force people to have to check trackwrestling every 10 minutes or else they have no idea when or where they wrestle next. Guess who runs the website? The same money grabbing people. Donít change the rules to 10 pt tech because you donít want to be there all day. LET THE KIDS WRESTLE. All the excessive expenses are ridiculous. Not all families are rich. Shouldnít have to pay to be a nyway member just to wrestle. If you want to have a so called "state" tournament, do it in April. When the season is officially done. There are still wrestling tournaments every weekend! The season is not over yet. Let those schools get their numbers and keep their programs going.

Now these clubs like superior and the former G2 club may have good practice partners, but donít even think that G2 made kids into NCAA national champions. Those kids get good by going to the garage to wrestle at Yianni's house. Flying people in to train with them. Good for Yianni and the rest of them! But DON'T take credit for making him who he is today.

Thatís the end of my rant.

Last edited by ROCky585 on Mar 20, 2018; edited 1 time in total


ringworm2000
Joined: Jan 5, 2017
Posts: 41
wow. this post has some passion. three people with their first post ever. i can understand a lot of points from those upset and i get the lthose who are unhappy. the answer is in the middle. it is fair to say the SWA and most NYWAY events are a train wreck. two different reasons. the guys at SWA are xxxx and are trying to raise $$ to travel with their better kids and pay the coaches way. NYWAY event struggle because track wrestling sucks unless you have great internet and multiple competent people running it. That is why Varsity tournaments and NYWAY states work pretty good, but the smaller local tournaments are typically a train wreck.

NYWAY should be ashamed of itself for the $50 coaches fee. each NYWAY club should get 4 coach passes. Then charge $25 for additional passes. This will allow the club coaches not to be screwed over to attend and keep every parent from thinking they are a coach.

Letís work together to make it work for the kids. An 11 hour day is not good for anyone.


chucknorriscoverband
Joined: Jan 15, 2014
Posts: 111
I have an idea.. don't go to superior G2 or nyway venues ! You seem to have a lot of answers and opinions so run your own show ! Or drop 500 bucks to head to another state for the weekend. When I don't like what's on the radio I change the station.. just saying..


smokinferro
Joined: Nov 17, 2010
Posts: 191
Tournament began late much due to 10-12 parents accidentally putting down age as their kids divisions
and not the grade division they were wrestling in. That many bracket changes will cause a delay. Registration form clearly stated this was a grade based division tournament. Also, We had 6 man round robins so wrestlers could get more matches which will make for a longer day. Definitely will need split session next year or run a few more mats.
Superior Wrestling Academy & Superior tournaments are definitely not a money grab as most people know. Superior donates all the concession money to the Pal-Mac Wrestling Boosters. On top of that Superior paid for new school singlets, sends wrestlers to summer camp every year & we pay for the Varsity team to compete & camp at 1000 Island Duals every year along with many other donations we really shouldnít have to explain. All money is given back to the sport of wrestling!!!

Very disappointed with the inaccurate posts stated above about Superior, the Coaches and Volunteers involved. All we want to do is put wrestlers on the mat and help grow the sport. We in the wrestling community should be supporting each other, period!!! Constructive Criticism is fine, we want to hear from the wrestling community to help make our events better but all the other nonsense mentioned is pure craziness & fabricated stories.
So much hard work goes into these events & we are very thankful for the volunteers and the support we have received so far from the community over the years. Not going to let a few inaccurate negative posts ruin what we are really all about and trying to accomplish. Thanks again wrestling families for your support.

ďHard work pays offĒ


smokinferro
Joined: Nov 17, 2010
Posts: 191
You know what, we read over the previous posts again and we do agree that we should of played our National Anthem. That we truly apologize for. That will never happen again as we should always recognize the greatest country in the world and show respect to all the active & fallen soldiers.


mattime
Joined: Apr 8, 2008
Posts: 868
Location: Rochester NY
NYWAY should be ashamed of itself for the $50 coaches fee. each NYWAY club should get 4 coach passes. Then charge $25 for additional passes. This will allow the club coaches not to be screwed over to attend and keep every parent from thinking they are a coach.

Letís work together to make it work for the kids. An 11 hour day is not good for anyone.[/quote].

I do have to correct you on the coaches fee for NYWAY State Championships. The admission per day was $15. Coaches passes are $10 per day. So if you wanted a coach pass for one day it was $25 and the for the weekend it was $50. ( admission plus coach pass). Thank you,
Adam Burgos
_________________
"expierence is what you get when you don't get what you want"


HomeTeamFan
Joined: Apr 6, 2012
Posts: 49
I think all these tournaments are supposed to be a money grab. I mean isnít that the point. To make money. When in all actuallality. I think they are lucky if they break even.


BULL80
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 34
ROCky585 wrote:

Now these clubs like superior and the former G2 club may have good practice partners, but donít even think that G2 made kids into NCAA national champions. Those kids get good by going to the garage to wrestle at Yianni's house. Flying people in to train with them. Good for Yianni and the rest of them! But DON'T take credit for making him who he is today.

Thatís the end of my rant.



1. No one made a claim to a club producing a national champion but lets count how many state champions section V has had in the last 4 years that didn't go to a club.
2. They have great practice partner because they developed them they didn't hatch them from an egg or order them.
3. You can knock clubs all you want they produce results across the state. Put the stats together these clubs against the field.


Vougars
Barn Brothers
G2
Superior
Gladiators
Cobra
Properly Trained
Journeymen
FLWC


4. Clubs are here to stay and will continue to be the future of all high level sports, they are their for the athletes who want more than a school can provide because they want to reach their goals. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/09/05/why-families-stretch-their-budgets-high-priced-youth-sports/571945001/

5. News flash TRAINING youth or high-school athletes in any sport cost money, it's not the 80's or 90's anymore when being a great athlete and training at high school got you in to college. Parents know this it's why clubs exist in every sport in the section V area, Is it fair maybe not but neither is life,

6. I find it funny that you comment on the garage like you know what goes on their and its obvious that you don't.

Last edited by BULL80 on Mar 20, 2018; edited 1 time in total


Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1101
Apex
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