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Mar 26, 2018
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duddems
Joined: Jan 25, 2018
Posts: 139
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LImarty wrote:LOL. Left with my tail between my legs ....??? TOO FUNNY !!!. I do not kiss Steve Meehan's assets. His Forum was ALIVE when I posted. Just like everyone's Forum when LImarty posts. Secondly, Scott Arnel gave that cream filled donut too much authority. Their loss- not mine.
Look, I am being honest in my opinion. NONE of the NYS Champs in 2018 will make a dent in DI. Would be better off served going JUCO -DIII..
btw. EACH YEAR NYS's number of AAs will be on a decline- You can keep waving the flag but, I will implore you to take your head out of your butt hole. Lastly, as far as mentioning NAMEs- lol....when I compare athletes - this is only an educated opinion that actually presents them as being well thought of. Matt Sganga was as solid as they come yet, never won a Suffolk title- If, I had to choose between him and the past 10 yrs of Suffolk 112 lb champions- I would hands down take Sganga. Your vision will get clearer-
................................
quick,
ABSOLUTELY, that is why 118lbs- should be a weight class. How many 98/ 106 lbers seniors ever advance to the next level. I think ONE -a kid from Easton , PA- wrestled DI with limited results.
but, old 117, 123, and 132 DID bring NYS wrestlers to the forefront- when, weight certifications were not obstructions. My point is simplistic. The reason a NATO- Lizak- and others can make 125 lbs- is because they have been "cheating" weight certifications in H.S and know how to suck weight due to the level of competition....New York wrestlers bring Igloo lunch boxes to tournaments also, due to the lack of level of competition.
NYS today can not compete with top tier states for a multitude of reason but, more to do about age and weight- plus, the level of Coaching only goes so high.
Ever hear of Jacori Teemer or Frankie Gissendanner...they wont have D1 impact???....ok, Marty needs a nurse to check his vitals! Hurry
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Mar 26, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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Hey Marty,
Third times a charm ey? So if you go back to last years thread you will see the research I did to show you. It contains all of the AA's at NCAA D 1 level and shows you current AA rate. I must not have said it right the first 10 times I told you. Look at it and tell me where my math is wrong, look at it and tell me some insipid tale of middle school wrestling in 1977 but read it. To borrow a phrase from the 1970's RIF, reading is fundamental. Please address facts or go home.
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Mar 26, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Jesse Jantzen, Jon Masa, Steven Brown, Gregor Gillespie , JP O'Connor and Kyle Dake AA'D or won titles IN CONSECUTIVE YEARs at 149 lbs.
Teemer and Gissendaner will be entering a different planet...we will see how long they remain wrestling. Many HS Ranked wrestlers do not achieve the same success in DI.
best of luck.
..................................
Ask yourself- How many wrestlers who were Ranked from PA- remain wrestling. It is apparent that their number of 53 entrants shows the DEPTH of talent. New York has individuals. Different world.
I do not want to do the ROLE CALL of multiple X NYS Champs who made absolutely no impact in DI....AND the few that did AA- it was in their 5th wrestling season.
Last edited by LImarty on Mar 27, 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Mar 26, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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Marty do you need help finding old thread? Are you afraid you might see I'm right?? Do you just want to remain ignorant of the facts? You can keep typing and ignoring what I've posted but that just means to me you cannot accept facts and I win by default.
Now if you need me to pull up old thread because you don't know how to, I will be glad to assist you, otherwise the next post that references past NCAA champs and disregards the body text of my last 10 posts I will assume is your acquiescing to my winning the debate. I can only debate facts
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Mar 26, 2018
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duddems
Joined: Jan 25, 2018
Posts: 139
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LImarty wrote:Jon Masa, Steven Brown, Gregor Gillespie , JP O'Connor and Kyle Dake AA'D or won titles IN CONSECUTIVE YEARs at 149 lbs.
Teemer and Gissendaner will be entering a different planet...we will see how long they remain wrestling. Many HS Ranked wrestlers do not achieve the same success in DI.
best of luck.
..................................
Ask yourself- How many wrestlers who were Ranked from PA- remain wrestling. It is apparent that their number of 53 entrants shows the DEPTH of talent. New York has individuals. Different world.
I do not want to do the ROLE CALL of multiple X NYS Champs who made absolutely no impact in DI....AND the few that did AA- it was in their 5th wrestling season.
The national tourns theyve been winning and placing at are the highest level there is. Yes D1 is a different animal , but if Jacori and Franky continue to want to be the best wrestlers they can and will succeed at D1 level. You dont have to b a national champ to b a success...not ti say they cant or wont become one. Point is, they are in position and its up to them, with some luck concerning physical health mixed in. They r studs, but not as much as you r crazy my friend. Who is gonna take Teemer down much? Who is gonna stop Frankys blast double....u doubted yanni hard, wake up.
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Mar 26, 2018
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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LImarty wrote:Hey Araneo !!!
WTFs UP !!!! ????? With few exceptions- FEW- New York State wrestling is a shell of what it use to be. I go back to the 60s as a fan- and wrestled into the 70s. I was a peewee Coach through the 90s- Was very involved with MANY wrestlers who wrestled in the early 00s.
I will put it to you this way. Jon Masa, Anthony Riccardi, Mike Piccozzi, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc .etc......NEVER won a NYS Title yet, were DI recruits....and 2 were AAs. I have seen the BEST...and...what you are seeing is the REST.
go away !!! This sport in NYS has evolved into PEEWEE404....upper level peewees wrestling Varsity matches. The GOOD ONEs would/could fit at anytime- depending on if they knew how to cut 10-15 lbs each week- could sustain wrestle-offs and were willing to be drilled like plow horses. IMO they would not walk through a wrestling room door. I commend the boys who work their tails off- just far and few.
ps. There was wrestling in NY and GREAT NYS wrestlers prior to Yianni Diakomiholis...lol. About FACTs.....I REFERENCED PRO Athletes who grew up on Long Island. How many ALL- PRO players are coming from Long Island today ??? You're a JOKE...and that's a FACT !!!!
If, you need lists...in EVERY Sport -I will oblige you.
'''''''''''''''''''
quick,
I think you are referring to my "thinking" IMAR was unbeatable- a few years back (???)
I'm referring to the post you put up about if IMar had 3 losses in his career you would stop posting. He hit three. You were a peewee coach and quite honestly are not qualified to coach any level beyond that due to the fact that you have no credentials. NYS has never been consistently as deep as PA....ever. The whole Dapper Dan/PWC is designed on the fact that PA is that much better than the rest of the country. Fact is NYS is performing at the next level about where we always have. 10-15 D1 qualifiers and 3-5 AA's on average. Well ahead of the majority of the country. Could we improve? Absolutely. But it's not the doom and gloom show you make it out to be. You can cut any amount of weight you want and any of NY's top guys DI or DII would thrash you in your prime. Sorry the sport didn't work out for you but getting on here and trash talking this generation isn't very becoming of you.
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Mar 26, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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Exactly!
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Mar 27, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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LOL.
....that's the best you two have ???
Each decade in New York the level of participation in Contact Sports reduces itself- to a level of non participation. GO AHEAD - ARGUE THIS...LMFAO !!! Numbers in Football and Wrestling are down. DI Scholarships are down....AND ALL the other stuff. Ive done this before. Take the line-up of the NYS Champs from 10 yrs ago- and- compare their successes. You will see the difference in RESPECTABILITY. Non- NYS Champs winning Nationally and being DI recruits- AA ing in D-I such as Steven Brown/ EMU and Jon Masa/ Hofstra....also, singular NYS Champs such as James Strouse/ Hofstra. Chris Weidman/ Hofstra. Show me the CURRENT RESULTs of NYS wrestlers doing comparable things ??? -you cant -there isn't any. My eyes don't lie. Wrestling in NYS is dreadful. The BEST are light years ahead of the rest....yet, our BEST are few and PA has four or five comparable at each weight who are equal to our best. Sorry quick, you are not being honest to yourself. Doom and gloom...lol....I have seen the departure of all the fundamentals progressively since 1999...each year less is taught. less is learned, and less is displayed on the mat.
Keep making me look like a genius.
........................
the last 4-8 year cycle had NYS wrestlers wrestling in DI- WHO, HOW MANY STARTED AND AA'D ??? Take each weight class- 125 to 285....and FIND WALDO .
...........
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Mar 27, 2018
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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LImarty wrote:LOL.
....that's the best you two have ???
Each decade in New York the level of participation in Contact Sports reduces itself- to a level of non participation. GO AHEAD - ARGUE THIS...LMFAO !!! Numbers in Football and Wrestling are down. DI Scholarships are down....AND ALL the other stuff. Ive done this before. Take the line-up of the NYS Champs from 10 yrs ago- and- compare their successes. You will see the difference in RESPECTABILITY. Non- NYS Champs winning Nationally and being DI recruits- AA ing in D-I such as Steven Brown/ EMU and Jon Masa/ Hofstra....also, singular NYS Champs such as James Strouse/ Hofstra. Chris Weidman/ Hofstra. Show me the CURRENT RESULTs of NYS wrestlers doing comparable things ??? -you cant -there isn't any. My eyes don't lie. Wrestling in NYS is dreadful. The BEST are light years ahead of the rest....yet, our BEST are few and PA has four or five comparable at each weight who are equal to our best. Sorry quick, you are not being honest to yourself. Doom and gloom...lol....I have seen the departure of all the fundamentals progressively since 1999...each year less is taught. less is learned, and less is displayed on the mat.
Keep making me look like a genius.
........................
the last 4-8 year cycle had NYS wrestlers wrestling in DI- WHO, HOW MANY STARTED AND AA'D ??? Take each weight class- 125 to 285....and FIND WALDO .
...........
You don't know the fundamentals because you quit wrestling. You look like a turd that got ran out of the sport because you weren't good enough. Now you're posting on message boards talking crap about kids who accomplished more simply by reaching the varsity level than you ever did.
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Mar 27, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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First off....quick.
It is YOU who is coming off like a jerk. Questioning my wrestling ability- from over 45 years ago..lol !! Like Ive said a 100x - this isn't about me. I could handle myself quite well on the mat-and- only quit because of not wanting to lose weight- when I was accomplished both in Football and Baseball. Two sports which came easy to me- wrestling was hard.
As a fan- and- follower of this Sport. I have seen the years of changes...from Admins, to Coaches and finally to the wrestler's talents. Of which I totally disagree on your assessment of the current crop . If, this associates ALL negatively this was never my intention.
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Mar 27, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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You ask us to look things up, I did. Posted facts that you blatantly ignore.
You use your "memory" and your "opinion" as fact, claiming some cause and effect relationship because you see it with your aluminum foil covered helmet on your head while in your skibbies while posting here and elsewhere, and you expect us to accept your posts as the end all to the discussion because you are the loudest mouth in the room.
Now you are changing the discussion to other D1 scholarships but you haven't recognized the research I did last year which disproved your theory on how many NY wrestlers AA now versus then.
In the end you are wrong. The fact that you (and only you), think yourself a genius and the winner of this little debate is at the heart of your ailment(s). Once again I am not a doctor, nor do I truly care, but you might want to get that checked out.
For now I am happy that you cannot address the fact that the premise of your argument for the last 20 years is wrong, your usual response in full effect, ignore the facts, move the "goalposts", change the subject.
P.S. not working
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Mar 27, 2018
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BULL80
Joined: Nov 30, 2016
Posts: 57
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bigkidsdad wrote:You ask us to look things up, I did. Posted facts that you blatantly ignore.
You use your "memory" and your "opinion" as fact, claiming some cause and effect relationship because you see it with your aluminum foil covered helmet on your head while in your skibbies while posting here and elsewhere, and you expect us to accept your posts as the end all to the discussion because you are the loudest mouth in the room.
Now you are changing the discussion to other D1 scholarships but you haven't recognized the research I did last year which disproved your theory on how many NY wrestlers AA now versus then.
In the end you are wrong. The fact that you (and only you), think yourself a genius and the winner of this little debate is at the heart of your ailment(s). Once again I am not a doctor, nor do I truly care, but you might want to get that checked out.
For now I am happy that you cannot address the fact that the premise of your argument for the last 20 years is wrong, your usual response in full effect, ignore the facts, move the "goalposts", change the subject.
P.S. not working
can you post the info again i would love to see it myself, thank you for doing the work!
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Mar 27, 2018
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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BULL,
He can post as many years as he wants- showing AAs....and the cycles of NYS's relevance ....Which is ALL subjective toward the amount of DI Schools- the amount of wrestlers wrestling in College...and the QUALITY of opponents. (Did you beat a former National Champ - is a good one )
ALL AMERICAN is not my argument. Mine is more to what degree of achievement.
The Banach brothers were Olympians- Kerry McCoy was an Olympian- many were alternates, ...the AMOUNT of Top World athletes from New York is conclusive toward yesterday- NOT TODAY.
One High School or two HS's from NYS had a pipeline to the TOP Wrestling institutions - when Iowa State was relevant. Brentwood HS/ Huntington HS had DI wrestlers yearly for approx. 4 years. Willie Gadson, Charlie Gadson, Jeff Thomas, Mike Piccozzi, ...Brentwood had Bob Antonacci, Pete Galea. Carl Adams.....while other NYS wrestlers were wrestling at Syracuse, Penn St....etc. etc. When going to College was not the focus- when making money was.
To argue this...is SO INFANTILE.
Boomer Esaison/ East Islip HS....ALL PRO
Vinny Testaverde/ Sewanaka HS....ALL PRO
Jimbo Elliot/ Sachem HS....ALL PRO
Frank Viola/ East Meadow HS....CY Young
John Franco/.......ALL STAR
and 100 others.
ever hear OF Julius Erving or Jim Brown ??? This is comical.
WHY ????? Why would wrestling being any different. Carl Adams was called by Sports Illustrated (the premier National publication ) - "Middle Weight of the Decade "...he won his State Title 6-5 over a Nassau wrestler Gary Ventimeglia. When Nassau County was the "boss"....and went on to do great things. Anyone remember an ALL NYS NCAA Final - Peter Capone/ Hofstra vs Chris Edmunds/ Tenn. Edmunds growing up less than 10 mins from Hofstra...LOL.
Most wrestlers had only one appearance to a State Tournament ...WHY ??? 1) Too many good kids in your league, section, etc. 2) Most would have to beat a Section or State Champ to get to Syracuse. THE TALENT POOL WAS LADEN WITH THE BEST KIDs- not only in NY - they were the best in the Country. RIGHT HERE !!!
Now, not from my mouth but, from a Coach - who is well regarded. Who has raised the level of many wrestlers and Teams. Paul Gillespie was once asked. Who in your opinion was the BEST wrestler from Long Island...and the best you have coached. Without any hesitation. Mike Macchia/ Island Trees , HS and the best you have ever coached ?? Jon Masa/ Long Beach HS....Macchia went to Rhode Island with a slew of NYS wrestlers- Rhode Island dropped their program. Masa a 3 X- ALL American without ever winning a NYS Title at Hofstra.
Lastly, as a fan. Ive been around this sport since my brother wrestled at Hofstra in the early 60s. Ive seen the enormous amount of wrestlers engaged at every level.....FULL SQUADs....junior high, high school and at the next level all w/ wrestle-offs weekly.. THE BEST can compete at every era mentioned yet, the ERA between 1973- to approx. 1985....with strong blips of talent right through till today has shown that numbers, weight certifications and sociological changes have progressively weakened the product in New York State....IMO- Each decade loses credibility.
BUT, let blowhard bigkids tell you how- everything is just BETTER.....LMFAO !!!! STATISTICs will never make Kyle Dake the BEST HS wrestler from NYS....ALL AMERICAN status is subjective toward the entrants. ALL CHAMPIONs are not equal.
141 lbs- Kyle Dake vs Yianni Diakomiholis ........Pick the winner. I have mine.
Last edited by LImarty on Mar 28, 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Mar 27, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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"Bull" I will reopen the old thread it shows where I got my info, how many AA's there were in the past and I compiled a list of current. Thread is called "we need numbers"
Marty, you are no longer interested in how many NY'ers AA, well if that isn't moving the goal posts I don't know what is. So look it up is your mantra if the facts happen to support your ideology, a liberal progressive if I have ever seen one lol.
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Mar 27, 2018
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bigkidsdad
Joined: Feb 18, 2017
Posts: 166
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LImarty wrote:BULL,
He can post as many years as he wants- showing AAs....and the cycles of NYS's relevance ....Which is ALL subjective toward the amount of DI Schools- the amount of wrestlers wrestling in College...and the QUALITY of opponents. (Did you beat a former National Champ - is a good one )
ALL AMERICAN is not my argument. Mine is more to what degree of achievement.
The Banach brothers were Olympians- Kerry McCoy was an Olympian- many were alternates, ...the AMOUNT of Top World athletes from New York is conclusive toward yesterday- NOT TODAY.
One High School or two HS's from NYS had a pipeline to the TOP Wrestling institutions - when Iowa State was relevant. Brentwood HS/ Huntington HS had DI wrestlers yearly for approx. 4 years. Willie Gadson, Charlie Gadson, Jeff Thomas, Mike Piccozzi, ...Brentwood had Bob Antonacci, Pete Galea. Carl Adams.....while other NYS wrestlers were wrestling at Syracuse, Penn St....etc. etc. When going to College was not the focus- when making money was.
To argue this...is SO INFANTILE.
Boomer Esaison/ East Islip HS....ALL PRO
Vinny Testaverde/ Sewanaka HS....ALL PRO
Jimbo Elliot/ Sachem HS....ALL PRO
Frank Viola/ East Meadow HS....CY Young
John Franco/.......ALL STAR
and 100 others.
ever hear OF Julius Erving or Jim Brown ??? This is comical.
WHY ????? Why would wrestling being any different. Carl Adams was called by Sports Illustrated (the premier National publication ) - "Middle Weight of the Decade "...he won his State Title 6-5 over a Nassau wrestler Gary Ventimeglia. When Nassau County was the "boss"....and went on to do great things. Anyone remember an ALL NYS NCAA Final - Peter Capone/ Hofstra vs Chris Edmunds/ Tenn. Edmunds growing up less than 10 mins from Hofstra...LOL.
Most wrestlers had only one appearance to a State Tournament ...WHY ??? 1) Too many good kids in your league, section, etc. 2) Most would have to beat a Section or State Champ to get to Syracuse. THE TALENT POOL WAS LADEN WITH THE BEST KIDs- not only in NY - they were the best in the Country. RIGHT HERE !!!
Now, not from my mouth but, from a Coach - who is well regarded. Who has raised the level of many wrestlers and Teams. Paul Gillespie was once asked. Who was the BEST wrestler from NY ...and the best you have coached. Without any hesitation. Mike Macchia/ Island Trees , HS and the best you have ever coached ?? Jon Masa/ Long Beach HS....Macchia went to Rhode Island with a slew of NYS wrestlers- Rhode Island dropped their program. Masa a 3 X- ALL American without ever winning a NYS Title at Hofstra.
Lastly, as a fan. Ive been around this sport since my brother wrestled at Hofstra in the early 60s. Ive seen the enormous amount of wrestlers engaged at every level.....FULL SQUADs....junior high, high school and at the next level all w/ wrestle-offs weekly.. THE BEST can compete at every era mentioned yet, the ERA between 1973- to approx. 1985....with strong blips of talent right through till today has shown that numbers, weight certifications and sociological changes have progressively weakened the product in New York State....IMO- Each decade loses credibility.
BUT, let blowhard bigkids tell you how- everything is just BETTER.....LMFAO !!!! STATISTICs will never make Kyle Dake the BEST HS wrestler from NYS....ALL AMERICAN status is subjective toward the entrants. ALL CHAMPIONs are not equal.
141 lbs- Kyle Dake vs Yianni Diakomiholis ........Pick the winner. I have mine.
Yawn, you are so predictable. Do you need some new aluminum foil on your helmet to hear the "coaches talking", lol
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