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Dec 10, 2018
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Burkead145
Joined: Oct 17, 2018
Posts: 51
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Preseason rankings were blown up after the first weekend!!!! Spencerport (unranked) crushing #3 Niagara Wheatfield and #7 Massapequa destroying #1 Fulton. Sleeper of the year goes to Spencerport, they beat up N-W by 20pts.
How far does Massapequa jump and how low does Fulton and N-W drop?
I’m thinking the pre-season team/individual rankings are all jacked up and at best a guess to get something on paper. I see did see on facebook, Instagram, CNYwrestling and probably their local new paper that Fulton believed the preseason ranking were real. LOL!!!!!!!!!! It will all work it self out. Congrats to Spencerport for its hot start. They will be at the State Duals again this year.
PRE-SEASON TEAM
DIVISION 1
1. Fulton - 3 (LOL)
2. Hilton - 5
3. Niagara Wheatfield - 6 (LOL)
4. Eastport-South Manor - 11
5. Shenendehowa - 2
6. St. Anthony's - C
7. Massapequa - 8
8. Wantagh - 8
9. Horseheads - 4
10. Rush Henrietta - 5
11. Minisink Valley - 9
12. Monroe Woodbury - 9
13. Monsignor Farrell - C
14. Rocky Point - 11
15. Grand Island - 6
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Dec 10, 2018
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jessefeffer
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 184
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When I saw those preseason rankings, I thought they were "tournament style' considerations. Just having 4 or more elite wrestlers does little to define the relative strength of a dual meet team. Some attempt to assess the quality of the remaining roster is necessary to properly characterize the team. It's also important to have the stronger parts of a team dispersed throughout the weight classes in order to give the coach some matchup flexibility.
So, the fact that these preseason rankings were intended to be dual team rankings, indicates to me that very little thought beyond who has the most returning sectional/state place finishers was given.
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Dec 10, 2018
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Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
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Tournament rankings would be stupid, considering teams from around the state all wrestle in different tournaments. So they'd have to be dual rankings. I'm not getting where they got Fulton as #1, and Niagra is basically the McDougald brothers. The top teams in the state are likely Hilton, Massapequa, Wantagh, Minnisink and Shenendehowa......in whatever order. Spencerport and Rocky Point could be sleepers.
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Dec 11, 2018
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Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1182
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Falcs96 wrote:Tournament rankings would be stupid, considering teams from around the state all wrestle in different tournaments. So they'd have to be dual rankings. I'm not getting where they got Fulton as #1, and Niagra is basically the McDougald brothers. The top teams in the state are likely Hilton, Massapequa, Wantagh, Minnisink and Shenendehowa......in whatever order. Spencerport and Rocky Point could be sleepers.
Niagara W. has 5 state reps on their team by the way.
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Dec 11, 2018
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Oldskool
Joined: Feb 1, 2004
Posts: 1182
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DIVISION 1
1. Hilton - 5 - (12-0)
2. Massapequa - 8 - (10-0)
3. Spencerport - 5 - (7-0)
4. Eastport-South Manor - 11 - (5-0)
5. Shenendehowa - 2 - (2-0)
6. Fulton - 3 - (15-1)
7. Niagara Falls - 6 - (14-0)
8. Niagara Wheatfield - 6 - (5-1)
9. Wantagh - 8 - (0-0)
10. Minisink Valley - 9 - (6-0)
11. Rush Henrietta - 5 - (9-0)
12. Monroe Woodbury - 9 - (0-0)
13. Clarence - 6 - (12-1)
14. Westhampton Beach - 11 - (5-0)
15. Pittsford - 5 - (8-2)
Honorable Mention (Alphabetically):
Columbia - 2 - (11-2)
Mamaroneck - 1 - (5-1)
Middletown - 9 - (7-2)
Newburgh - 9 - (12-1)
Rocky Point - 11 - (1-1)
DIVISION 2
1. Central Valley - 3 - (8-0)
2. Tioga - 4 - (0-0)
3. Peru - 7 - (1-0)
4. Falconer - 6 - (8-0)
5. Pleasantville - 1 - (7-1)
6. Gouverneur - 10 - (7-2)
7. Warrensburg - 2 - (5-1)
8. Walton-Delhi - 4 - (6-0)
9. Windsor - 4 - (6-0)
10. Iroquois - 6 - (8-1)
11. Pearl River - (5-1)
12. BGAH - 4 - (4-1)
13. Pioneer - 6 - (6-1)
14. Fredonia - 6 - (7-2)
15. Canisteo-Greenwood - 5 - (4-2)
Honorable Mention (Alphabetically):
Cobleskill-Richmondville - 2 - (2-0)
Norwich - 4 - (4-4)
Red Hook - 9 - (6-2)
Warsaw - 5 - (1-0)
Watervliet - 2 - (4-3)
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Dec 11, 2018
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maddad
Joined: Dec 9, 2018
Posts: 6
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Just a bystander but niagara-wheatfield had three wrestlers out injured ( W. McDougald, J. Dewolf and their 32 pounder )and two were gone on vacation out of their starting lineup and still Spencerport only by 20
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Dec 11, 2018
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Falcs96
Joined: Jan 21, 2015
Posts: 597
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Wantagh and Minnisink are 9 and 10? Holy smokes.
Glad they actually settle this on the mat.
And wheres Mount Sinai in D2?????
Are they crazy? They might win it all!
Last edited by Falcs96 on Dec 11, 2018; edited 1 time in total
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Dec 11, 2018
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wrestlinggrandpa
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
Posts: 43
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maddad wrote:Just a bystander but niagara-wheatfield had three wrestlers out injured ( W. McDougald, J. Dewolf and their 32 pounder )and two were gone on vacation out of their starting lineup and still Spencerport only by 20
Spencerport won by 28, and if DeWolf was injured it didn't stop him from pinning his opponents in 2 other duals in the same tournament, one at 145 and the 2nd at 152.
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Dec 11, 2018
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jessefeffer
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 184
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Falcs96 wrote:Tournament rankings would be stupid, considering teams from around the state all wrestle in different tournaments. So they'd have to be dual rankings. I'm not getting where they got Fulton as #1, and Niagra is basically the McDougald brothers. The top teams in the state are likely Hilton, Massapequa, Wantagh, Minnisink and Shenendehowa......in whatever order. Spencerport and Rocky Point could be sleepers.
Tournament rankings may be stupid but they are one way of looking at a team's competitive strength and that preseason ranking and there is one common tournament that they all wrestle that keeps team scores and crowns a team champion. Ranking dual teams based solely on returning state or section competitors is less than half the picture. The missing part is to consider how well a team can put quality wrestlers in each of the 15 weight classes which is much tougher to assess. That's the result of raw numbers, an active off season program, great coaching and returning experienced kids. That would take some research.
Btw, reading that NW was missing 5 starters makes more sense. They should be the section VI rep to the DI dual tournament and I think they will compete well there.
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Dec 11, 2018
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Caelknows
Joined: Mar 2, 2015
Posts: 34
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Just looking at the box score a counterpoint is that Spencerport had a JV kid take the 99 spot and bumped up kids for a subsequent weights. They didnt wrestle Burroughs a pretty solid Sophomore. It was a pretty impressive early season win for them.
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Dec 13, 2018
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Burkead145
Joined: Oct 17, 2018
Posts: 51
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New to the rankings at #15 Pittsford loses a close one to unranked Penfield 40-34. Looks like Penfield could be “moving on up” These rankings have been fun to follow, you can look forward to it changing week to week. It will all work itself out come the end of January. The top 10 will become more predictable by early January.
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Dec 13, 2018
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Poecat
Joined: Dec 7, 2017
Posts: 13
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The rankings are definitely way out of wack. I know of three section 3 teams that could hang with many of these teams and they aren't even honorable mention. Two of them were honorable mention in the preseason rankings. I know summer matches don't mean diddly but I've watched Grand Island and Clarence kids their entire youth. They are phenomenal wrestlers so I don't want to take anything away from them. But I'd put Indian River up against them to win anytime. In fact like I said summer means nothing but IR did beat Clarence at thousand Islands. I'd probably put Niagara Falls in that category too. Again great programs not trying to take anything away but I've seen what all these schools are capable of. The rankings are to be taken with a grain of salt for now until later.
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Dec 13, 2018
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Burkead145
Joined: Oct 17, 2018
Posts: 51
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Poecat wrote:The rankings are definitely way out of wack. I know of three section 3 teams that could hang with many of these teams and they aren't even honorable mention. Two of them were honorable mention in the preseason rankings. I know summer matches don't mean diddly but I've watched Grand Island and Clarence kids their entire youth. They are phenomenal wrestlers so I don't want to take anything away from them. But I'd put Indian River up against them to win anytime. In fact like I said summer means nothing but IR did beat Clarence at thousand Islands. I'd probably put Niagara Falls in that category too. Again great programs not trying to take anything away but I've seen what all these schools are capable of. The rankings are to be taken with a grain of salt for now until later.
Your statement is based on the camping trip, team bonding, fishing summer weekend wrestling tournament in thousand island duals? Ok. Let me sit down. Ha!!!! I’m sure Indian river has, in my opinion, a State Finalist in Logan Patterson at 122 but after that there is who? Yes, a real indicator of a teams success is the quality of its “other” guys. I just don’t know of any “other” guys from Indian River. Please enlighten us. I’m still sitting down.
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Dec 13, 2018
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wnyathletics
Joined: Jan 22, 2018
Posts: 36
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Here we go with IR's most recent internet commenter. Poe you must not got enough conflict on CNY.
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Dec 14, 2018
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jessefeffer
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 184
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To further illustrate my point about these looking like tournament strength rankings I'll offer this. Tioga is the NYSWN #2 small school and has 3 or 4 state quality wrestlers and 4 or 3 sectional quality kids. The BEDS # for them is 230 and they have 21 kids on their roster with only 4 listed at a weight class under 132 lbs. Of those 21, some have got to be of the JV, new-to-varsity wrestling variety.
They are coming to STWOA this year and will likely place top 3 or 4 there and I'd credit their coach for deciding to come to this tournament as his best wrestlers will get some really competitive matches. They also went to Matt Marino as well so they already saw some NW and Fredonia kids. They remind me of some good section VI Class D teams that were at Maple Grove, Ripley and Frewsburg over the years. Well coached and having some terrific talent but filling a winning majority of the 15 weight classes with an experienced, ready to compete wrestler is too much to expect based on their numbers alone. I could be wrong but no way can they actually be the #2 DII team in NYS although they may finish top 5 at Albany. I think the top 4 DII teams in section VI would beat them in a dual. These are two 500+ enrollment schools and 2 combined program teams, one over 500 and the other around 460.
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