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Dec 31, 2008
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fattywrestler316
Joined: Dec 9, 2006
Posts: 2120
Location: Cook Islands |
http://www.uewrestling.com/duals2009.htm
Figured this was worth sharing.
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Dec 31, 2008
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BJB7
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 375
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So supposedly the state champion comes out of this tournament! Let's examine.
First off they can't even fill the bracket? 13 teams only
10 Large Schools
3 Small Schools
From the rankings on NYWOL
1 Seed- Spencerport 5 SR #1 LS no complaints there
2 Seed - Phonix 3 SR #1 SS no complaints
3 Seed- Monroe Woodbury 9 SR #2 LS always a tough team
4 Seed - Amsterdam 2 SR #3 LS
5 Seed - Chenago Forks 4 SR #3 SS
6 Seed - Fulton 3 SR #15 LS
7 Seed - Fairport 5 SR #9 LS
8 Seed - Wantagh 8 SR #12 LS
the rest
Sayville 11 SR#24 LS
Brentwood 11 SR # 18 LS
Waverly 4 SR # SS
UE 4 SR #16 LS
Johnson City 4 SR #NR
So we section 5, 3 and 11 with 2 reps
Sections 9, 2 and 8 with 1 rep
Section 4 the host section with 4 reps
We have no Section 1,6,7,10
No teams like Shendenhowa who is very tough, Lancaster who took 4th at Spencerport and finished higher than JC, Amsterdam, no Niagra Wheatfield that finished 2nd at the Oswego tournament these teams are tough every year. Burnt Hills was a tough team at the ATTica Duals, Valley Central is always tough. They make this tournament seem so elite. There is no reason they should not be able to fill a 16 team bracket they should invite 20-25 teams and then expect teams to pull out to fill the 16 team bracket there should be 1 representative from each section.
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Dec 31, 2008
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QUIET
Joined: Jan 9, 2005
Posts: 735
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How do you know they don't invite more teams? Still looks like they are pulling the top prospects.
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Dec 31, 2008
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brainiac
Joined: Jan 18, 2004
Posts: 896
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the only reason the brackets aren't full is because these so called "great teams " don' t want to risk a loss .
This way they can say "we would've beat Spencerport ( or another team) because we beat another team by more points than they did'. blah,blah, blah .
The bottom line is this EVERY team in the state knows that the UE'S is considered the tournament that TEAMS can square off against each other to determine who actually has the best TEAM .
If you want to be considered the Top Team in NY then you have to come to the UE'S.
Period.
This is all their is right now.
No other options right now.
Everybody knows this before the season starts.
You can go undefeated as a team and still not be named the Best in NY if you didn't compete at the UE'S.
So I give credit to the teams that show up and for the teams that don't , don't try to lay claim to a title you had the chance to compete for but chose not to.
See , that wasn't too hard to understand now was it .
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Dec 31, 2008
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the kind one
Joined: Oct 18, 2003
Posts: 1067
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Question: why would Fairport not have their guys wrestle at the Oswego Tourny? It seems to me you would want the guys to get some real matches instead of having a 11 day break before UE.
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Dec 31, 2008
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LQQKICU
Joined: Dec 6, 2004
Posts: 2025
Location: In the Shadow |
brainiac wrote:the only reason the brackets aren't full is because these so called "great teams " don' t want to risk a loss .
This way they can say "we would've beat Spencerport ( or another team) because we beat another team by more points than they did'. blah,blah, blah .
The bottom line is this EVERY team in the state knows that the UE'S is considered the tournament that TEAMS can square off against each other to determine who actually has the best TEAM .
If you want to be considered the Top Team in NY then you have to come to the UE'S.
Period.
This is all their is right now.
No other options right now.
Everybody knows this before the season starts.
You can go undefeated as a team and still not be named the Best in NY if you didn't compete at the UE'S.
So I give credit to the teams that show up and for the teams that don't , don't try to lay claim to a title you had the chance to compete for but chose not to.
See , that wasn't too hard to understand now was it .
I agree with most of what you said. But how do you know that the other so called great teams are even invited? I do give credit to the teams that show up, but for the most part some of these teams are not even close to being considered the #1 team in the state. Matter of fact, I believe that if SP wins it again, they should change the name to the Spencerport Duals, hold it at SP and let SP invite who they consider the top teams. We know that they would not invite sup par teams Right!
This is though the only option that it is at this time, but in the future I would like to see it like they have it in PA. But I believe the powers to be would not like to have a real State Team Tournament. This way you will not have teams claiming something that is really not true.
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I suppose I should be upset, but I'm not. No, in fact, I think this is a friendly message, like "Hey, wanna play?" and yes, I want to play. I really, really do. |
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Dec 31, 2008
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QUIET
Joined: Jan 9, 2005
Posts: 735
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now there's an idea - home field advantage!
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Dec 31, 2008
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johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1097
Location: Hen House |
brainiac wrote:the only reason the brackets aren't full is because these so called "great teams " don' t want to risk a loss .
This way they can say "we would've beat Spencerport ( or another team) because we beat another team by more points than they did'. blah,blah, blah .
The bottom line is this EVERY team in the state knows that the UE'S is considered the tournament that TEAMS can square off against each other to determine who actually has the best TEAM .
If you want to be considered the Top Team in NY then you have to come to the UE'S.
Period.
This is all their is right now.
No other options right now.
Everybody knows this before the season starts.
You can go undefeated as a team and still not be named the Best in NY if you didn't compete at the UE'S.
So I give credit to the teams that show up and for the teams that don't , don't try to lay claim to a title you had the chance to compete for but chose not to.
See , that wasn't too hard to understand now was it .
Brainiac is right on the money. The notion of being invited is a bunch of crap, and is used as excuse for not having the nads to lay it on the line. You want in? Pick up the frickin phone.
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Dec 31, 2008
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BJB7
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 375
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Wait I know for a fact that last year and maybe this year that Lancaster petitioned and was denied? Do you think Lancaster is worse than some of these teams? They invite who they want crap why not make it an open field and make it a 32 team tournament not sure how big UE is but I believe it is only a one day tournament why not make it a 2 day. In Illinois we just had a dual meet tournament with 16 teams and the first day they had a pool and you were guarnateed 3 matches if you went 3-0 or 2-1 you went into the championship pool the next day and the others wrestled for consolation. Of course there is criteria for tiebreakers only 8 teams go onto the championship bracket. Believe me I like what UE does but I just don't agree with the way they invite teams they should invite a team from each section and then if they decline go onto other teams. They should put on their website the 16 teams invited and then update it here who accepted the invitation.
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Dec 31, 2008
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crab_rider
Joined: Sep 4, 2003
Posts: 211
Location: Spencerport |
BJB7 wrote:Wait I know for a fact that last year and maybe this year that Lancaster petitioned and was denied? Do you think Lancaster is worse than some of these teams? They invite who they want crap why not make it an open field and make it a 32 team tournament not sure how big UE is but I believe it is only a one day tournament why not make it a 2 day. In Illinois we just had a dual meet tournament with 16 teams and the first day they had a pool and you were guarnateed 3 matches if you went 3-0 or 2-1 you went into the championship pool the next day and the others wrestled for consolation. Of course there is criteria for tiebreakers only 8 teams go onto the championship bracket. Believe me I like what UE does but I just don't agree with the way they invite teams they should invite a team from each section and then if they decline go onto other teams. They should put on their website the 16 teams invited and then update it here who accepted the invitation.
Sorry, I don't believe your "fact". I would believe if you cared to scan in the "denial" letter and post to armdrag. Tournaments are publicized to ADs and coaches. Those who want to, apply. There is no reason that the 16 bracket should not be filled if teams apply.
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If you wrestle, the rest is easy. |
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Dec 31, 2008
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BJB7
Joined: Dec 13, 2007
Posts: 375
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I am not a coach for the team so I do not have a letter but i was told by one of the coaches if he lied to me then I have been fooled. But I know for a "fact" that Lancaster always tries to wrestle the best competition and I know they go to the Attica Duals which last year had a tough Fulton team and Brockport team who I think they lost to in two very close duals. This year they lost 37-33 to Burnt Hills and lost to the 2 PA teams so I do not believe that they are scared to get a blemish on their record by going to the UE duals as one of the earlier posters has said. Maybe the AD did not contact UE or maybe UE denied them but I hope they wouldn't deny a team like Lancaster who consisitently puts a tough out there every year they may not be a team like Spencerport every year but they are state ranked every year. All i'm asking is for a little parity from the sections invited if this is the so called "State Championship Duals"
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Dec 31, 2008
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Doubleleg113
Joined: Dec 28, 2008
Posts: 16
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Well as you can see New York state does not have this like your great state of Illinois. So instead the closest that we can come is this tournament and although there obvious imperfections I think that it gets the job done. And Lancaster i would agree that is a very good team but do you honestly think they would be in contention for the state title? The teams like Shen must just decide not to come because they certainly must get invited, and on top of that they always seem to be somewhere else instead of UE....
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Dec 31, 2008
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johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1097
Location: Hen House |
BJB7 wrote:I am not a coach for the team so I do not have a letter but i was told by one of the coaches if he lied to me then I have been fooled. But I know for a "fact" that Lancaster always tries to wrestle the best competition and I know they go to the Attica Duals which last year had a tough Fulton team and Brockport team who I think they lost to in two very close duals. This year they lost 37-33 to Burnt Hills and lost to the 2 PA teams so I do not believe that they are scared to get a blemish on their record by going to the UE duals as one of the earlier posters has said. Maybe the AD did not contact UE or maybe UE denied them but I hope they wouldn't deny a team like Lancaster who consisitently puts a tough out there every year they may not be a team like Spencerport every year but they are state ranked every year. All i'm asking is for a little parity from the sections invited if this is the so called "State Championship Duals"
Ok, then the tournament organizers denied Lancaster because they wanted to give two teams a bye in the first round. Based on the caliber of Lancaster (which is very good, I saw them this week) I would find it hard to believe that they "applied", and were denied.
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Dec 31, 2008
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brainiac
Joined: Jan 18, 2004
Posts: 896
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i will admit , i don't know how teams get invited .
but i do believe that the UE's were set up to try to bring all the contenders together.
i find it hard to believe that someone was turned down when there were open slots in the brackets
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Dec 31, 2008
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DJP
Joined: Mar 8, 2004
Posts: 1039
Location: Spencerport |
I have been to this tournament year after year and the line up continues to change. I would find it hard to believe that if your coach thought he stood a chance and had some results to support that. That UE officials would leave open brackets and leave a contender home. SO I guess the language comes int he word contender? You opened with the statement that Shenendoah was a contender for the title this year? I would urge you to look at the TB results and head to head against Spencerport. NW made the same argument over the past two years and solved their problem by getting on the Spencerport schedule and look what happened.
The team you seem to be stumping for came up to TB this past two days and was not in the top 3? Somehow you now believe that they are being denied a shot?
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